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The Orban Incident

IoannesIoannes
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
The guy that does the Orban at church is a very nice man, I am very fond of him. The problem is that one day a few of us were talking. I mentioned that our group of writers is doing a book on scientific atheism, this particular individual and I began a long discussion about this. I was confused as to why he was taking the side of the atheists. He eventually divulged that he does not believe in God. While I love this man deeply and respect him, I do not believe for one second that he should be doing Orban. I mentioned this to a close friend and she said no, he does, and seemed confused that I would say that. So I talked with him again today and he plainly stated he does not believe God exists, and we had our usual debate. After which I told Abouna, and he got mad at me. He told me to watch what I say. I said that he told me he didnt believe in God and he said, why would he come to church then if he didnt believe in God, as if I know whats in that guys head.

First, do you think that he should be doing Orban? Second, why am I continually admonished for bringing these sort of issues to Abouna? Is that NOT relevant at all? It is frustrating, nothing I do or say is taken seriously, am I really that crazy?

Comments

  • John_S2000John_S2000
    This is very strange indeed. I was a bit confused you're talking about the Orban man right (or the Orban Incident because of abouna's reaction?).

    A suggested solution: try to tell this man that you know he was joking but it made you sad about him not believing in God, because if he were he isn't a Christian so how come he makes the Orban it's not a bakery (he is not just a baker?) but a traditional CO Church activity and that prayers are required by abouna and him, and a rite to follow... if he insists ask him if he would repeat this statement in front of abouna because you are concerned? Are there other abounas in your church?

    Is this person playing a practical joke to see how you would convince him to believe in God?
    Is he knowledgeable enough to discuss the subject of your book with him?
    Did you mention to him that the group of book writers agree that the material will be revised by your abouna/bishop before publication? Just my thoughts flying...

    An unusual situation if you ask me, it needs a rational approach. If abouna says he's OK then what's the problem??

    GBU
  • IoannesIoannes
    What I was thinking is that maybe he is conflicted about what he believes and for whatever reason decided to talk to me, although he is not very candid about it and does not seem to care who is around when discussing the existence of God and such. I brought it to Abouna simply because I felt that he is obviously better equipped to handle this. Maybe he already knew this man was struggling and was possibly a bit aggitated that I pointed out something that he is aware of. I think everyone here also knows that I can be a bit abrasive at times, to say the least. However I was trying my best to phrase everything correctly and non-confrontational, however I could have rubbed him the wrong way.

    For some reason it really upset me, but I talked to a very close friend of mine, who is an Abouna also, and he told me that. Also that I should not get so upset about it because maybe doing the orban actually helps him, which I can definetly see why it would. So I dont know, I dont know much and I am still learning so its good to hear advice from others. Perhaps Fr. Peter, the voice of reason, will weigh in. I miss Fr. Peter and my close Abouna friend speaks of him very highly.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Making the Orban is a privilege not a right, therefore I would expect that your Abouna knows who has been asked to make them, and as his spiritual father knows his spiritual state.

    For myself, if someone who made the Orban was seriously struggling with some issue I might tell them that they need to let someone else make them while they are working through the sin or situation. Which makes me think (because it is not my place to double guess) that your Abouna already knows this situation and is either dealing with it as he considers appropriate, or knows well that the man is not serious in the comments he is making to Ioannes.

    Either way, it would seem to me, if I had approached my priest or bishop on something similar, that it is now in his hands, and you do not need to consider it anymore. That is not to say that you should not have conversations with this brother who may be doubting or confused, or joking or testing you. But I do not think you need to worry about the Orban any more at all. That is someone else's responsibility. You have discharged yours.

    Father Peter
  • IoannesIoannes
    Thank you Fr. Peter.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9842.msg120496#msg120496 date=1286733467]
    It is frustrating, nothing I do or say is taken seriously, am I really that crazy?

    Let me tell you what a think this is so; hopefully accepted by you.
    In this issue and even the one we were talking about deacons.....or protestantism since you speak against it a LOT.... all of these problems, to fix them and to turn those ppl to God, all will revolve on one thing that must happen: CHANGE. You will be changing ppl to do something. That is not easily accepted by much people; here in the states (where's everyone is telling you to "be yourself") and everywhere else. So change needs to be made. now to really get the person to change, the right approach must be taking for them to really and trully change.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Curious:  Is this Orban for the Sacrifice or for the distribution?

    Part of the making of the Orban requires reciting the Psalms.  Does he do so?
  • IoannesIoannes
    He is making Orban for the sacrafice as well. I am not trying to change the guy, I am trying to help him. To be honest I really enjoy talking with him. He is extremely nice and does have some very logical points, but flat out told me he does not believe in God, he even said how absurd the virgin birth is. I thought he may have been testing me or something, but when he professed that he did not believe God existed, I knew he was serious. Egyptians dont generally joke like that. But once again I was not taken seriously. Abouna knows best so I will let him deal with it accordingly, I brought it to his attention and thats all I can do.
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