Tennen

Does any one have any Contemplations/Meditations about the Spirituality of the hymn Tennen. Or any cool facts about it.

We will be beginning it in our Alhan Classes, and I need something to start the lesson off with so that they learn the hymn, and can use it as a prayer rather than just a chant. Thank you all. God bless!

Comments

  • Hey Tishori, I've got something you can use pm me and we'll work something out
  • [quote author=Tishori link=topic=7301.msg96778#msg96778 date=1225926281]
    Does any one have any Contemplations/Meditations about the Spirituality of the hymn Tennen. Or any cool facts about it.

    We will be beginning it in our Alhan Classes, and I need something to start the lesson off with so that they learn the hymn, and can use it as a prayer rather than just a chant. Thank you all. God bless!


    will you learn the rest of the parts, the 3rd and 4th?
  • Nope they will just be learning the 1st and maybe second if time permits!

    Pray for our Service!

    And thanks John! I'll get right on that!
  • Yea I checked both these articles first. The majority of it is based on the translations and history behind the hymn. It was good but I wanted a more spiritual taste of the hymn, if you know what I mean. Thank you though! God bless!
  • [quote author=Tishori link=topic=7301.msg96778#msg96778 date=1225926281]
    Does any one have any Contemplations/Meditations about the Spirituality of the hymn Tennen. Or any cool facts about it.

    We will be beginning it in our Alhan Classes, and I need something to start the lesson off with so that they learn the hymn, and can use it as a prayer rather than just a chant. Thank you all. God bless!


    we r learning it in alhan too! we just started last friday. Tomorrow will be our second day enshallah!!

    +mahraeel+
  • [coptic]Namenra] tyrou>
    Aiws `mpai`cqi `nte Cn. Jwrj Gali etaftajrof `nje pamoust je ]ermynia `nnihwc aicormou `nje pijinjere `nte niref`cqai[/coptic]
    I read that article of Dr. George Ghaly which confirmed my opinion that translation of hymns lose them the meaning of the writers (hymnographers)
    [coptic]Kata pegaf `nje Cn. Gali> piref`cqai afjere je pisomt `nalou =e=;=b av`ini `nnefcarx `nhan;ycia e`V] hiten pi`,rwm etaika] an `nje niref]myini[/coptic]
    As he said, Dr. Ghaly, the hymnographer meant the the three holy young mean presented their bodies as sacrifices to God through the fire, which the translator didn't understand
    [coptic]Qen pisomt `n`ctio,on (kata ]meu`i) af`cqai je piaggeloc af`i epecyt ouoh aferpi`,rwm `[nyout alla piref]myini e]Arapoc afjoc je piaggeloc afsost `mpi`,rwm> [/coptic]
    In the third verse (as I think) he wrote that the angel came down and made the fire tranquil, but the Arabic translator said that the angel stopped the fire
    [coptic]]ouws ecwtem enetenmoust[/coptic]
    I want to hear your opinions
    [coptic]oujai qen `P=[=c[/coptic]
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=7301.msg96859#msg96859 date=1226087506]
    [coptic]Namenra] tyrou>
    Aiws `mpai`cqi `nte Cn. Jwrj Gali etaftajrof `nje pamoust je ]ermynia `nnihwc aicormou `nje pijinjere `nte niref`cqai[/coptic]
    I read that article of Dr. George Ghaly which confirmed my opinion that translation of hymns lose them the meaning of the writers (hymnographers)
    [coptic]Kata pegaf `nje Cn. Gali> piref`cqai afjere je pisomt `nalou =e=;=b av`ini `nnefcarx `nhan;ycia e`V] hiten pi`,rwm etaika] an `nje niref]myini[/coptic]
    As he said, Dr. Ghaly, the hymnographer meant the the three holy young mean presented their bodies as sacrifices to God through the fire, which the translator didn't understand
    [coptic]Qen pisomt `n`ctio,on (kata ]meu`i) af`cqai je piaggeloc af`i epecyt ouoh aferpi`,rwm `[nyout alla piref]myini e]Arapoc afjoc je piaggeloc afsost `mpi`,rwm> [/coptic]
    In the third verse (as I think) he wrote that the angel came down and made the fire tranquil, but the Arabic translator said that the angel stopped the fire
    [coptic]]ouws ecwtem enetenmoust[/coptic]
    I want to hear your opinions
    [coptic]oujai qen `P=[=c[/coptic]



    well actually the source we in the chorus are learning the 3rd and 4th part, which are not much people say or even have, i use the source from which is here: “The Deacon’s Service & Hymns Book” of The Committee of the Revival of the Churches (Gam-'eiet Nahdet Al-Kana-es), 9th edition 1990, pg. 620-621.

    here is the coptic, the arabic and the english i translated,

    [coptic]Eulogon ;aton Kurion `e`ntou `nsomt auhen `;my] `n]`hrw `[email protected] au`wou `mpe `mkauh ]na`sjemjom `[email protected] `pAggeloc gar `m`P=o=c efhente oumetaf nohem `mmwou au`wou `[email protected] `mpatou enneftaho. `Ananiac `Azariac ke Micayl.
    Menenca `;re `nje afouwnh `[email protected] etoi `e] enws `ebol enjw `[email protected] je `fouab `pSyri `m`V]@ `fouab `pSyri `[email protected] `fouab `pSyri `mpefnau `mmauatf [email protected] (nah `nhomt) sana`h;yk `n`gnon an. `Ananiac `Azariac ke Micayl.[/coptic]


    The three children blessed the Lord when they were cast in the midst of the furnace. They glorified with no pain in steadfast, and the Angel of the Lord supported them, saved them and commanded them to glorify His right hand in goodness. Hananiah Azariah and Mishael.
    Afterward, He showed them His mysteries, so they proclaimed saying, "Holy is the Son of God, holy is the mighty Son, holy is the unseen Son." He gave them patience, (they accepting His grace), knowing His kindness. Hananiah Azariah and Mishael.

    الثلاثة فتية باركوا الرب عندما طُرحوا في وسط الأتون. مجدوا بغير ألم متشددين، وملاك الرب عضدهم ونجاهم وأمرهم أن يمجدوا يمينه حسناً. حنانيا وعزاريا وميصائيل.
    وبعد ذلك أظهر لهم أسراره فصرخوا قائلين: ""قدوس إبن الله، قدوس الإبن القوي، قدوس الإبن الذي لا يرى وحده." فصبرهم، (قابلين نعمته)، عارفين تحننه. حنانيا وعزاريا وميصائيل.
  • [coptic]Myna pamenrit>
    `couwnh je niermynia ouot `eeryou qen ou;o `nry]. Alla vai `ftajro `nouon `n,ai ete vai pe niermynia cwrmou `nje hanmyini `nte niref`cqai[/coptic]
    It seems that translations differ from each other in many cases. But this proves one thing that is the translations lose the meanings of the writers (hymnographers)
    [coptic]Kata [email protected] pihwc `mmetOueinin (ic o panagioc Patyr ...) ceermynin `nsoft qen oujwk> alla ]myuini `cse oi (`mpeouon =e=;=b qen oujwk ebyl `e`Viwt)[/coptic]
    For example: the Greek hymn "[coptic]ic o panagioc Patyr ...[/coptic]" is translated wrong completely, when the meaning should be "no one is completely Holy except the Father"
    [coptic]Pinis] `mproblyma pe nihwc euermynin ebolqen arapoc e metaggelia> alla `mmon ebolqen ]metrem`n<ymi qen ousys[/coptic]
    The big problem is the hymns are translated from Arabic to English, but not from Coptic straight
    [coptic]oujai qen `P=[=c[/coptic]
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=7301.msg96876#msg96876 date=1226148699]
    [coptic]Myna pamenrit>
    `couwnh je niermynia ouot `eeryou qen ou;o `nry]. Alla vai `ftajro `nouon `n,ai ete vai pe niermynia cwrmou `nje hanmyini `nte niref`cqai[/coptic]
    It seems that translations differ from each other in many cases. But this proves one thing that is the translations lose the meanings of the writers (hymnographers)

    well i am sure you read Dr. George's analysis and what i understood from that is this difference is understandable.
    actually the text i provided might be used in a bright saturday we are publishing, and to clarify this reason of this version of text, i say in a comment:
    This is a hymn for the three saintly children. The first two parts are written in Greek. The second two parts are written into Coptic Bohairic and Sahidic. These two parts have two general versions of text that are handed down in the church books. The source of the this version is “The Deacon’s Service & Hymns Book” of The Committee of the Revival of the Churches (Gam-'eiet Nahdet Al-Kana-es), 9th edition 1990, pg. 620-621. This version is chosen here because of the way it is sung by most of the oral sources of hymns in our Church.


    [coptic]Kata [email protected] pihwc `mmetOueinin (ic o panagioc Patyr ...) ceermynin `nsoft qen oujwk> alla ]myuini `cse oi (`mpeouon =e=;=b qen oujwk ebyl `e`Viwt)[/coptic]
    For example: the Greek hymn "[coptic]ic o panagioc Patyr ...[/coptic]" is translated wrong completely, when the meaning should be "no one is completely Holy except the Father"

    for some reason i don't think it would fully mean this. The word [coptic]ic[/coptic] would mean "one", [coptic]pan`gioc[/coptic] means "all-holy", and [coptic]Patyr[/coptic] means "Father".
    simply meaning "One is the all-holy Father"

    The Arabic is same way, but we just NEVER say it and the source of this is the old Maharq monastery liturgy book which if you see in other sections of the book, translates very literally from the coptic or greek sometimes.


    [coptic]Pinis] `mproblyma pe nihwc euermynin ebolqen arapoc e metaggelia> alla `mmon ebolqen ]metrem`n<ymi qen ousys[/coptic]
    The big problem is the hymns are translated from Arabic to English, but not from Coptic straight
    [coptic]oujai qen `P=[=c[/coptic]



    will that is a great problem and i am guilty of it myself.....i wish i have time to learn coptic in full but there is just none.....so we just have to deal with it the way it is.

    When i do something in Coptic, like a huge project like the book of the Revelation and try to find someone to review what i have did, being a person who doesn't know the language as good, i just won't find anyone to help. so personally, if i can't find anyone to help, i just do my best with what i have. it's that simple of a concept.
  • [coptic]Myna pamenrit>
    V] efe`cmou enekmetsemsi - ]emi je vai ou`n,ai ounast pe[/coptic]
    God bless your services - I know that this is a difficult thing
    [coptic](Ic o panagioc Patyr) pe ouhwc `mmetOueinin et]ka] an> alla ourwmi ettaiyout qen tenek`klycia pejaf nyi `nje taimynia[/coptic]
    "[coptic]Ic o panagioc Patyr[/coptic]" is a Greek hymn which I don't understand, but a respectable man in our church told me that meaning
    [coptic]],w ebol `mnai ]nou[/coptic]
    I will leave here now
    [coptic]oujai qen `P=[=c[/coptic]
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