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SON OR GOD?
WHY DID JESUS CALL HIMSELF THE SON OF MAN, THEN, THE SON OF GOD. HE DIDN'T SAY THAT HE WAS GOD. HE ALSO SPOKE TO GOD ON THE CROSS AND ASKED HIM WHY HE FORSAKE HIM. WHY? CAN GOD SPEAK TO HIMSELF? I KNOW THAT JESUS IS GOD, BUT I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO FIND A
"CONTRADICTION". SO WHAT WAS THE REASON?
WHEN YOU ARE FACED WITH PPL THAT TRY TO SAY THAT ORTHODOX BELIEFS ARE WRONG, IT JUST CONFUSES YOU AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY.
PLEASE, IF SOMEONE KNOWS, I REALLY NEED YOUR HELP.
THX
"CONTRADICTION". SO WHAT WAS THE REASON?
WHEN YOU ARE FACED WITH PPL THAT TRY TO SAY THAT ORTHODOX BELIEFS ARE WRONG, IT JUST CONFUSES YOU AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY.
PLEASE, IF SOMEONE KNOWS, I REALLY NEED YOUR HELP.
THX
Comments
Why did Jesus say "Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabacthani"?
This is a prayer of David in Psalm 22:
To the choirmaster: according to The Hind of the Dawn.
A Psalm of David.
1: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?
2: O my God, I cry by day, but thou dost not answer; and by night, but find no rest.
3: Yet thou art holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel.
4: In thee our fathers trusted; they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5: To thee they cried, and were saved; in thee they trusted, and were not disappointed.
6: But I am a worm, and no man; scorned by men, and despised by the people.
7: All who see me mock at me, they make mouths at me, they wag their heads;
8: "He committed his cause to the LORD; let him deliver him, let him rescue him, for he delights in him!"
9: Yet thou art he who took me from the womb; thou didst keep me safe upon my mother's breasts.
10: Upon thee was I cast from my birth, and since my mother bore me thou hast been my God.
11: Be not far from me, for trouble is near and there is none to help.
12: Many bulls encompass me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me;
13: they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion.
14: I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax, it is melted within my breast;
15: my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue cleaves to my jaws; thou dost lay me in the dust of death.
16: Yea, dogs are round about me; a company of evildoers encircle me; they have pierced my hands and feet --
17: I can count all my bones -- they stare and gloat over me;
18: they divide my garments among them, and for my raiment they cast lots.
19: But thou, O LORD, be not far off! O thou my help, hasten to my aid!
20: Deliver my soul from the sword, my life from the power of the dog!
21: Save me from the mouth of the lion, my afflicted soul from the horns of the wild oxen!
22: I will tell of thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the congregation I will praise thee:
23: You who fear the LORD, praise him! all you sons of Jacob, glorify him, and stand in awe of him, all you sons of Israel!
24: For he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; and he has not hid his face from him, but has heard, when he cried to him.
25: From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.
Jesus wasn't in despair, he was telling the people Hope!
“I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him” Daniel 7:13
“When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" Matthew 16:13
“For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” Matthew 12:8
“The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by her children.” Matthew 11:19
SON OF GOD
“While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” Matthew 17:5
“Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, "Do you believe in the Son of God? he answered and said, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" And Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you” John 9:35-37
******“Concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead”. Romans 1:3,4******
Jesus calls Himself, the "son of man" because He became man like us, so being called "the son of Man" ....symbolizes His humanity/human nature
but He also clearly says Himself, and during His baptism, God says, "this is My beloved Son"..and also during the transfiguration...
so He is both the son of Man and the son of God at the same time
He was praying saying "Father why have You forsaken me" Matthew 27:46
...as Michael Thoma said Jesus was giving each of us a message of hope..that even though in our hardest times we think that God left us and abondoned us..He is really closer to us than we think, He never leaves us
why have You forsaken me...check this link:
http://www.coptichymns.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1866&highlight=
GOD BLESS YOU ALL. :)
so ...Jesus and God are the same thing...
I 'M SORRY FOR ASKING A LOT OF QUESTIONS , BUT I GET ASKED QUESTIONS LIKE THAT.
THX
:-\
The Lord Jesus says that He and the Father are One (John 10:30) this means NOT that they are the same PERSON but of the same NATURE. The Greek "HEN" which is used here as "ONE" is gender-neutral telling us that the Lord Jesus and the Father are NOT the same person. The Greek word "Heis" means numerical "ONE", if the Lord Jesus said this instead of "HEN" then it would mean He and the Father are the same person.
There is a very straight forward moment when the Lord Jesus said He was God:
54Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, "I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
57Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
58Jesus said to them, "[glow=red,2,300]Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM[/glow]."
59Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (John 8:54-59)
Here the Lord Jesus uddered the Holy Name of God which to the Jews was too holy to prounce. He also was going to be stoned becuase of it and the Lord Jesus didn't correct them or explain what He meant becuase it was self-explanatory thus He left the place.
The Holy Fathers have some very good insights on this verse. Let's sit in front of them and listen shall we ;)?
Saint John Chrysostom: "Why did He not say,'Before Abraham was, I was, but I AM? Christ uses this expression, for it signifies continuous Being, removed from all time. For this cause the expression seemed to them blasphemous. (Homily 55 ,P.G. 59:324 (col.304)."
St Gregory the Great: " He says, 'Before Abraham was, I AM'. 'Before' indicates past time, I Am present time. Becuase divinity does not have past future time, but always 'IS'. He did not say, ' I was before Abraham'. Hence it is said to Moses, 'I am the Being'[King Jmes version translates I AM WHO I AM to the word 'BEING', this we see in [glow=red,2,300]Exodus 3:14. [/glow]
Hopefully this will help a bit together with the other awesome contributions given here by all :).
Jesus calls Himself, the "son of man" because He became man like us, so being called "the son of Man" ....symbolizes His humanity/human nature
However i would have to disagree slightly with PrincessMary, and point out the paradox, that by referring to Himself as the son of man, He is in fact emphasising and asserting His DIVINITY. I am not denying that this reference is also concerning His humanity, what i am in fact denying is that its PRIMARY usage concerns His humanity, rather than His divinity.
PrincessMary pasted for us the most significant and central passage concerning "The Son of man", which is to be found in Daniel 7:13-14, lets take a look at it:
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Its quite clear that 'The Son of man' figure in Daniel 7 is divine - one who approaches God Himself in His heavenly throne room and is given universal authority and dominion, which makes the 'son of man' title one of great exaltation, emphasising His divine role and not just one of mere humanity.
In any event, assuming this was a mere reference to Christ's humanity, it is Orthodox theology that Christ had a complete human nature, which He "made One with His divinity, without mingling, without confusion, and without alteration." This is a question that ive heard being asked, and really annoys me. The reason why it annoys me is because it tries to understand God as if he was a human being. For example, when people try and grasp how the Father could talk to the Son, and come to the conclusion that God is talking to Himself, they picture this like a human being talking to himself, and they think that this is just outright ridiculous. But their thinking is ridiculous, for human beings are one being and one person - we only have one foundational ego, one persona of which we are self-coscious. God has THREE persons - this is something beyond our comprehension, and there is absolutely nothing we can compare this to, and therefore we will never be able to grasp or understand how the Son 'communicates' with the Father. If i had to make any sort of an analogy, however imperfect it might be, i might for example say, that the human heart may command or instigate a thought in the human mind, which may in turn command that human tongue to speak a certain thing. Stay away from these people! If you dont know your Bible very well, or Orthodox theology - if you havent read much of the church Fathers or any theological books than STAY AWAY FROM THESE PEOPLE. Because they will manipulate the Bible and because of your ignorance you will only be confused and you wont be able to respond - DONT PUT YOURSELF IN THIS POSITION. If these people are trying to make fun of you, simply ignore and avoid them as best as you can: Lets get one thing straight - His claim to be the SON OF GOD is a claim to be GOD in itself. Read John 1:1 - "In the beggining was THE WORD, and THE WORD was WITH GOD, and THE WORD WAS GOD"
I know here it doesnt mention "The Son", but we know from verse 14 that "The Word" which is being described here is Christ. Now, its obvious here that 'The Word' is distinct from God, for He was WITH God, yet it is also clear that the Word WAS GOD. This is not a contradiction. You see, The Father is God, and The Son is the Word of God - but because of the very fact that He is the Word - he THEREFORE IS GOD. He is a separate person from the Father (hence the distinction between The Word and God), yet He is of the same self-substance as the Father (hence the the fact He IS GOD), possessing the divine nature and all the attributes of deity.
Secondly if you look at the verses which describe the relationship between God and the Son of God, you find that Christ is expressing a relationship that is so inseparable and so unique, that they are in fact ONE. For example:
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Jesus here expressly states that the only Begotten Son of God has DECLARED - or REVEALED God Himself. And hence later in John we see Christ saying:
John 14:9: "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?"
IN ANY EVENT, JESUS DOES MAKE A DIRECT CLAIM TO BE GOD:
We find in Exodus 3:14, that God reveals Himself to Moses in the burning bush, by the divine name "I AM".
In John 8:58, Jesus claims this divine title Himself when He says: "Before Abraham was, I AM".
Even in the sory of Jesus walking on the water found in Matthew 14:22-33 and Mark 6:45-52, the Greek literally reads in Jesus response: "Fear not, I AM".
FINALLY....there are so many ways Jesus can express His divinity without simply saying "I am God", theres many good reasons why Jesus wouldnt just outright come and say that. Christ certainly however makes claims to self-divinity, claiming Oneness with the Father, claiming to pre-exist the World, claiming the divine attributes (e.g. giving eternal life) and the divine titles of God (e.g. the alpha and the omega). Its implicit....Jesus was simply speaking of His relationship with the Father at that moment in time. A relationship in which the Jews understood Him claiming to be one with God and thus they accused Him of 'making Himself God'. As for the Holy Spirit, we know from the Bible that it is divine. It is the very spirit of God, this title itself implicitly yet obviously shows that God and His Spirit are one - just as you and your soul are one. Look at the following titles:
Spirit of God Numbers 24:2; Rom. 8:9,14; 2 Chr. 15:1
Spirit of the Father Matth. 10:20
Spirit of Jesus Acts 16:7
Spirit of Christ Romans 8:9
Spirit of the Son Galatians 4:6
If the Spirit of the Father, is the Spirit of the Son, which is also the Spirit of God - then OBVIOUSLY - God The Father, The Son, and the holy Spirit are ONE. 1 John 5:7 expressly states this also:
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Peace.
is that it?
am i on the right track?
GBU ;)
GBU 2 +++ ;)! God did not send a PART of Himself in the sense of Jesus Christ being partly God and partly human. We must be careful with terminology or we can end up believing in an old heresy called "Modalism" which states that God manifested Himself in 3 "modes" or "masks". In other words, God, as One divine Person, showed Himself on earth in 3 different existences:Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is not Orthodox teaching. Modalism denies the humanity of the Lord Jesus by saying He was just a "mask" of the One divine Person! This is becuase of a common confusion between the words " person" and "nature" or "essence".
"Person" means WHO you are: name, culture,etc.... and "Nature" means WHAT you are: a human being with all its characteristics that makes you different from a rock or an ostrich. Every created organism has ONE nature or essence. God is unique in everything by being 3 PERSONS in ONE ESSENCE, each fully divine but not 3 gods but ONE! Read and study the Nicene Creed for a deeper understanding. I will post a wonderful explanation, a bit later, by St John of Damascus concerning the Most Holy Trinity! Sorry for the "lecture" ;D!
So 1/3 of the Holy Trinity was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Theotokos: Jesus Christ- the Living Word of God (John 1:1)!