Hey everyone, I am someone who would really like to help the copts in Egypt and I am having trouble figuring out peaceful ways to help. please help me out if you know of anything I can do!
Well you can always pray for them. =D lol Also there are many churches and charities that help the people. If a relative is going to Egypt, you can send something with them. ONe of the best thing besides praying of course is to send things with Abouna and talk to him. You Know? Abouna has the best connections ;D
[quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6942.msg92900#msg92900 date=1216280113] Charitable works, protests, prayer - all with love, fervor and cheerfulness.
pray for me
joe
Not sure on the fruitfulness of protest, I think it can hurt more than do good sometimes..
[quote author=godislove260 link=topic=6942.msg92919#msg92919 date=1216285769] Not sure on the fruitfulness of protest, I think it can hurt more than do good sometimes..
Well maybe we aren't trying hard enough? If we hold regular protests, sign more petitions, work harder, we can get our voices heard, and stop the corruption and mistreatment of Copts in our homeland.
No, my point maybe wasn't clear, I don't mean it's fruitless because of lack of action (which might be true), but I mean because I feel that it only makes things worse for copts in Egypt, when protesters in America LITERALLY ASK AMERICA TO INTERVENE IN EGYPT...
This is the worst thing anyone could do for Copts in Egypt...
The problems in Egypt need to be solved from the inside out...
Well, we'll have to hope someone doesn't ... lol .... because I love debating in general, especially these subjects, I have some arguments in mind, so if anyone is willing to accept the challenge... (if you can call it that...lol)
I will have to go ahead and say that protesting does help... that way the U.S. will try to intervene (if accepted or not) still puts fear in the Egyptian officials!
I agree that officials might fear American intervention, however, if America were to intervene, it would not be because they're compassionate toward the poor Copts in Egypt or because they care about the copts protesting in America, but because there's something in it for them...
Secondly, looking at the people, not the officials, they will react on those protests by hating the copts in Egypt more and treating them worse... The officials might try to pretend to care, when in reality it doesn't change anything...
So I see the biggest result of protests is people thinking that Copts (as christians), support the 'christian' west and what it does in the Middle East (which is mainly muslim) The protesting copts in America and their demands strengthen the notion that some people in Egypt accuse copts of: trying to destroy national unity (el we7da el wataneya)
And this definitely doesn't help the copts in Egypt at all, and if I may add, as a copt, I have big issues with American foreign policy in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world..
doesn't matter if they want to help out of compassion or not... usually the pope does not accept it anyways... but it does still put FEAR in the hearts of the Egyptian officials... which will respect the church out of fear! which is all cool as long as they respect the Coptic church!
American intervention (out of compassion or not) will NOT NECESSARILY DO ANY GOOD FOR COPTS, it will be for the benefit of America, not the Copts...
You can't force someone to respect you... Officials might fear intervention, so they will just make sure next time they do something they can justify it (they may change the law for example)
[quote author=SuperMAN(BAM) link=topic=6942.msg92945#msg92945 date=1216297507] doesn't matter if they want to help out of compassion or not... usually the pope does not accept it anyways... but it does still put FEAR in the hearts of the Egyptian officials... which will respect the church out of fear! which is all cool as long as they respect the Coptic church!
If anything they will respect the church and copts less for thinking they're traitors who support the west...
[quote author=SuperMAN(BAM) link=topic=6942.msg92941#msg92941 date=1216295365] I will have to go ahead and say that protesting does help... that way the U.S. will try to intervene (if accepted or not) still puts fear in the Egyptian officials!
in the officials it might put fear, in normal people , they will get more angered towards the Copts, because copts (from outside the country) are making life harded than it already is for EVERYBODY.....
and besides, honestly, i don't think any protest would work, and i don't think anywhere in the BIBLE said: GO PROTEST, AND GET YOUR RIGTHS THAT WAY...... i highly boubt it sais thatin the Bible, any one wanna say something to that? (please correct me if i am wrong?) Besides, like here in Canada, no matter how much we protest, what is Canada going to do? send troops to Egypt? well they are already in Afghanistan, and i think they would say: we have better stuff to care about... (i think that is the same case for most countries, wich it wasn't , but it is... for all i know....
ya, one day when all the copts are gone in Egypt and when we regret not trying to help them. Not doing anything about it is the last thing I would think to do. These are OUR people in Egypt that are being forced to change religion and if they refuse they get beaten for it. This is not right, and even though I believe in prayer I also believe that as of right now other things need to be done. We need to speak up for those who don't have a voice, how much longer can we watch this happen?
We are told not to get our rights but still to fight for the rights of others, right?
also we are not to let ourselves be trampled upon if it won't have a redemptive(?) effect on others, right? but maybe it will.. that is maybe muslims will feel shame for how they are behaving.
the egyptian people need to take it humbly that they are doing wrong by persecuting the copts. They are to expect intervention from america if they do treat the copts badly. America can stop intervening when they treat the copts properly.
But if the matter only happens rarely.. It might not be a good option to protest.
But the pope has more wisdom and if he thinks its a bad idea to protest and will ruin christian muslim relations he is probably right. But I don't know what he thinks.
And surely the protest should not seem as if copts want revenge just proper judgment and control of the situation.
Still as undecided as I am about matters.. I still don't know if the protest is a good idea.
copticlovin posted just a bit before me. I agree with what she said. I didn't see it before but was told
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post
[quote author=copticlovin link=topic=6942.msg92993#msg92993 date=1216383588] ya, one day when all the copts are gone in Egypt and when we regret not trying to help them. Not doing anything about it is the last thing I would think to do. These are OUR people in Egypt that are being forced to change religion and if they refuse they get beaten for it. This is not right, and even though I believe in prayer I also believe that as of right now other things need to be done. We need to speak up for those who don't have a voice, how much longer can we watch this happen?
I won't deny that there are problems between copts and muslims in Egypt, but let's not blow things out of proportion. Copts aren't beaten the whole time for not becoming muslims. Yes, there IS persecution, but it's not that extreme.
As I said before, the problems in Egypt need to be solved from the inside out, foreign intervention (especially by America) is NOT the answer.
You say you believe in prayer, but you think things need to be done, Please forgive me but this seems to me like a paradox. Because prayer IS action. I mean I was like you at a time, thinking I should do something, but I have discovered the power of prayer. For who better to ask to intervene than GOD HIMSELF.
But don't forget that maybe the difficulties the copts in Egypt face are for the best, we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, if God wants the persecution to go on because He thinks this will strengthen our church even more, then let His will be done.
[quote author=godislove260 link=topic=6942.msg92997#msg92997 date=1216384999] But don't forget that maybe the difficulties the copts in Egypt face are for the best
You think that being persecuted, and beaten because of our religion is for the best? sorry but that is crazy. believe me, i believe in the power of prayer, i have been through many things in life and prayer has solved many of them. but these people in Egypt can pray, but do not have a voice, we are their voices, . like most of us, i have family in Egypt and every day i worry about the life they are going through or could eventually be going through. Im not saying that we should protest and cause harm to those who dont agree in what we are saying, but i am saying that we can raise awarness, the world is not as big as it seems and things in America are seen by people in other countries. The more awarness we raise, the more people who are closer and able to help can help. They need to know that we are there for them and that we know what is going on. They need to know that there are people who care for them and are against everything that is going on.
Before you call it crazy you should know some things... We are closest to God when we're facing difficulties. Also 'Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven'. and 'Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.'
Look at what happened to christianity in the west, they aren't persecuted, there are plenty of churches, but no people. Being persecuted can be for the best, just as gold can be purified by being put in a hot fire.
[quote author=copticlovin link=topic=6942.msg92998#msg92998 date=1216385810] [quote author=godislove260 link=topic=6942.msg92997#msg92997 date=1216384999] But don't forget that maybe the difficulties the copts in Egypt face are for the best
You think that being persecuted, and beaten because of our religion is for the best? sorry but that is crazy. believe me, i believe in the power of prayer, i have been through many things in life and prayer has solved many of them. but these people in Egypt can pray, but do not have a voice, we are their voices, . like most of us, i have family in Egypt and every day i worry about the life they are going through or could eventually be going through. Im not saying that we should protest and cause harm to those who dont agree in what we are saying, but i am saying that we can raise awarness, the world is not as big as it seems and things in America are seen by people in other countries. The more awarness we raise, the more people who are closer and able to help can help. They need to know that we are there for them and that we know what is going on. They need to know that there are people who care for them and are against everything that is going on.
They and we know that God is there to care for them... and if God is for us, who can be against us..
knowing God is always there is a great feeling, and knowing that people arent ignoring what's going on and are actually caring about it is also i good feeling
Remember the Alexandria incident a few years ago? There was a train traveling then the train fell over and so many people died. also the same thing happened with a boat it drowned.
So we will get our rights. God does everything in different ways.
"Say to those who are fearful-hearted, “ Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God will come with vengeance, With the recompense of God; He will come and save you.” (Isaiah 35:4)
"O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongs—O God, to whom vengeance belongs, shine forth!" (Pslams 94:1)
"Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;Their foot shall slip in due time; For the day of their calamity is at hand, And the things to come hasten upon them." (Deuteronomy 32:35)
"The LORD will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace.” (Exodus 14:14)
[quote author=Loca4Christ link=topic=6942.msg93006#msg93006 date=1216391937] Remember the Alexandria incident a few years ago? There was a train traveling then the train fell over and so many people died. also the same thing happened with a boat it drowned.
So we will get our rights. God does everything in different ways.
Firstly do you think that it was only bad people who died??? Don't you think there were hard working, decent copts and muslims on those trains??? Don't you think innocent children died who had nothing to do with the persecution of copts???
And people dying in a train wreck is a tragedy and will NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE as to the fact that there is persecution against the copts. People's death and other people's tragedy isn't us getting our right...
I don't understand how you can be glad people are dying, even if they were all bad people, wouldn't you be happier if they saw the love of God in the persecuted christians instead? Wouldn't it be much better if they saw how the persecuted copts are loving and kind to them and are thus showing them Jesus Himself...
I think wishing bad things to happen is not what Christ taught us...
We should not rejoice when they die, but mourn the fact that some lived and died without knowing the one, true, living God. (just my thought)
Hey dont push it. I wasnt happy that anybody died. If anybody dies I just am not happy in any way. Even If I dont know them.
Hey sorry I never thought about that incident until now. It happened a few years ago. And Im growing more mature everyday. And you learn something new everyday. I barely read or watch the news I just hear it from my dad.
Sorry If I offended anybody :'( This always happens . I say something that I dont mean in a bad way and people misunderstand me.
I was just showing an example. I thought God did that as a consequence for them. Sorry Sorry :'( I hope you can forgive me.
Comments
/
mahraeel
plzzz p4m sister in Christ
[center]PRAY[/center]
pray for me
joe
Charitable works, protests, prayer - all with love, fervor and cheerfulness.
pray for me
joe
Not sure on the fruitfulness of protest, I think it can hurt more than do good sometimes..
God bless
Please pray for me
Not sure on the fruitfulness of protest, I think it can hurt more than do good sometimes..
I can feel a debate coming on.... :P
God bless
Please pray for me
God Bless
Please pray for me
pray for me
joe
This is the worst thing anyone could do for Copts in Egypt...
The problems in Egypt need to be solved from the inside out...
God Bless
pray for me
joe
God bless
Please pray for me
PS Does he pay well??
Secondly, looking at the people, not the officials, they will react on those protests by hating the copts in Egypt more and treating them worse...
The officials might try to pretend to care, when in reality it doesn't change anything...
So I see the biggest result of protests is people thinking that Copts (as christians), support the 'christian' west and what it does in the Middle East (which is mainly muslim)
The protesting copts in America and their demands strengthen the notion that some people in Egypt accuse copts of: trying to destroy national unity (el we7da el wataneya)
And this definitely doesn't help the copts in Egypt at all, and if I may add, as a copt, I have big issues with American foreign policy in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world..
You can't force someone to respect you... Officials might fear intervention, so they will just make sure next time they do something they can justify it (they may change the law for example)
[quote author=SuperMAN(BAM) link=topic=6942.msg92945#msg92945 date=1216297507]
doesn't matter if they want to help out of compassion or not... usually the pope does not accept it anyways... but it does still put FEAR in the hearts of the Egyptian officials... which will respect the church out of fear! which is all cool as long as they respect the Coptic church!
If anything they will respect the church and copts less for thinking they're traitors who support the west...
I will have to go ahead and say that protesting does help... that way the U.S. will try to intervene (if accepted or not) still puts fear in the Egyptian officials!
in the officials it might put fear, in normal people , they will get more angered towards the Copts, because copts (from outside the country) are making life harded than it already is for EVERYBODY.....
and besides, honestly, i don't think any protest would work, and i don't think anywhere in the BIBLE said: GO PROTEST, AND GET YOUR RIGTHS THAT WAY...... i highly boubt it sais thatin the Bible, any one wanna say something to that? (please correct me if i am wrong?)
Besides, like here in Canada, no matter how much we protest, what is Canada going to do? send troops to Egypt? well they are already in Afghanistan, and i think they would say: we have better stuff to care about... (i think that is the same case for most countries, wich it wasn't , but it is... for all i know....
Like others said Pray to God and have faith. We will get our rights one day.
God Bless
also we are not to let ourselves be trampled upon if it won't have a redemptive(?) effect on others, right? but maybe it will.. that is maybe muslims will feel shame for how they are behaving.
the egyptian people need to take it humbly that they are doing wrong by persecuting the copts. They are to expect intervention from america if they do treat the copts badly. America can stop intervening when they treat the copts properly.
But if the matter only happens rarely.. It might not be a good option to protest.
But the pope has more wisdom and if he thinks its a bad idea to protest and will ruin christian muslim relations he is probably right. But I don't know what he thinks.
And surely the protest should not seem as if copts want revenge just proper judgment and control of the situation.
Still as undecided as I am about matters.. I still don't know if the protest is a good idea.
copticlovin posted just a bit before me. I agree with what she said. I didn't see it before but was told
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post
ya, one day when all the copts are gone in Egypt and when we regret not trying to help them. Not doing anything about it is the last thing I would think to do. These are OUR people in Egypt that are being forced to change religion and if they refuse they get beaten for it. This is not right, and even though I believe in prayer I also believe that as of right now other things need to be done. We need to speak up for those who don't have a voice, how much longer can we watch this happen?
I won't deny that there are problems between copts and muslims in Egypt, but let's not blow things out of proportion. Copts aren't beaten the whole time for not becoming muslims. Yes, there IS persecution, but it's not that extreme.
As I said before, the problems in Egypt need to be solved from the inside out, foreign intervention (especially by America) is NOT the answer.
You say you believe in prayer, but you think things need to be done, Please forgive me but this seems to me like a paradox. Because prayer IS action. I mean I was like you at a time, thinking I should do something, but I have discovered the power of prayer. For who better to ask to intervene than GOD HIMSELF.
But don't forget that maybe the difficulties the copts in Egypt face are for the best, we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, if God wants the persecution to go on because He thinks this will strengthen our church even more, then let His will be done.
God Bless
Please pray for me
But don't forget that maybe the difficulties the copts in Egypt face are for the best
You think that being persecuted, and beaten because of our religion is for the best? sorry but that is crazy. believe me, i believe in the power of prayer, i have been through many things in life and prayer has solved many of them. but these people in Egypt can pray, but do not have a voice, we are their voices, . like most of us, i have family in Egypt and every day i worry about the life they are going through or could eventually be going through. Im not saying that we should protest and cause harm to those who dont agree in what we are saying, but i am saying that we can raise awarness, the world is not as big as it seems and things in America are seen by people in other countries. The more awarness we raise, the more people who are closer and able to help can help. They need to know that we are there for them and that we know what is going on. They need to know that there are people who care for them and are against everything that is going on.
Look at what happened to christianity in the west, they aren't persecuted, there are plenty of churches, but no people. Being persecuted can be for the best, just as gold can be purified by being put in a hot fire.
[quote author=copticlovin link=topic=6942.msg92998#msg92998 date=1216385810]
[quote author=godislove260 link=topic=6942.msg92997#msg92997 date=1216384999]
But don't forget that maybe the difficulties the copts in Egypt face are for the best
You think that being persecuted, and beaten because of our religion is for the best? sorry but that is crazy. believe me, i believe in the power of prayer, i have been through many things in life and prayer has solved many of them. but these people in Egypt can pray, but do not have a voice, we are their voices, . like most of us, i have family in Egypt and every day i worry about the life they are going through or could eventually be going through. Im not saying that we should protest and cause harm to those who dont agree in what we are saying, but i am saying that we can raise awarness, the world is not as big as it seems and things in America are seen by people in other countries. The more awarness we raise, the more people who are closer and able to help can help. They need to know that we are there for them and that we know what is going on. They need to know that there are people who care for them and are against everything that is going on.
They and we know that God is there to care for them... and if God is for us, who can be against us..
God bless
Please pray for me
knowing God is always there is a great feeling, and knowing that people arent ignoring what's going on and are actually caring about it is also i good feeling
There was a train traveling then the train fell over and so many people died. also the same thing happened with a boat it drowned.
So we will get our rights.
God does everything in different ways.
This is the new one. http://copts.com/english1/index.php/2008/07/17/another-train-crash-tragedy-in-egypt/
I hope im straight on my facts
"O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongs—O God, to whom vengeance belongs, shine forth!" (Pslams 94:1)
"Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;Their foot shall slip in due time; For the day of their calamity is at hand, And the things to come hasten upon them." (Deuteronomy 32:35)
"The LORD will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace.” (Exodus 14:14)
Remember the Alexandria incident a few years ago?
There was a train traveling then the train fell over and so many people died. also the same thing happened with a boat it drowned.
So we will get our rights.
God does everything in different ways.
Firstly do you think that it was only bad people who died???
Don't you think there were hard working, decent copts and muslims on those trains???
Don't you think innocent children died who had nothing to do with the persecution of copts???
And people dying in a train wreck is a tragedy and will NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE as to the fact that there is persecution against the copts.
People's death and other people's tragedy isn't us getting our right...
I don't understand how you can be glad people are dying, even if they were all bad people, wouldn't you be happier if they saw the love of God in the persecuted christians instead?
Wouldn't it be much better if they saw how the persecuted copts are loving and kind to them and are thus showing them Jesus Himself...
I think wishing bad things to happen is not what Christ taught us...
We should not rejoice when they die, but mourn the fact that some lived and died without knowing the one, true, living God. (just my thought)
God Bless
Please pray for me
Hey sorry I never thought about that incident until now. It happened a few years ago. And Im growing more mature everyday. And you learn something new everyday.
I barely read or watch the news I just hear it from my dad.
Sorry If I offended anybody :'(
This always happens . I say something that I dont mean in a bad way and people misunderstand me.
I was just showing an example. I thought God did that as a consequence for them. Sorry Sorry :'(
I hope you can forgive me.
I also didn't mean to push it, I apologize ...
God Bless
Please pray for me