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This is why Coptic Orthodox Christians and Catholics alike believe that they individually posess the true faith. It is because they have the wrong information about each other's faith.
People, please realize no one religion or denomination is the best.
If that were so, we would be claiming to speak for God, and saying "THIS is what God wants, I know it because I am Him
You can be coptic orthodox, and still go to hell. It just depends how you lived your life.
The true faith is faith that comes from your heart.
However, religion IS ideology in nature. You are confusing ideology with its double meaning. You think that ideology is : The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture whereas I see ideology as: A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system. Two definitions, same dictionary, same word.
Islam would go with the first definition of ideology. I see nothing of praising God, only praising man
You said:The fact that you know that your brother wants something, because he told you so, does not make you identical and one and the same with your brother.My response:Eh...what does this have to do with my post? I am sorry but I do not understand where you were going with this.
So you shall excommunicate me as well?
Doesn't this remind you of the people who persecuted Christ? Their confidence for the True Faith?
What I am saying is that I have never been in any of the settings depicted in the Bible nor have you. I just have scriptures and I'm told that its from God.
I know Deacons in my Church who fear for their lives if they mess up with a certain chant or response in the Altar.
True faith is faith that comes from the heart, that comes from the truth you receive from the Bible. Not the Coptic Orthodox Church. Not the Infallible Pope. Not the Bishops. Not even the Catholic Diocese. The Bible, that is literally God in writing.
We are called to judge upon every issue, ideology, conception doctrine and spiritual truth that emanates from man.....but are never called to judge men themselves.
On the other hand, the individual who claims absolute certainty that his fellow brother will not enter God's kingdom is as foolish as the individual who claims that he will, with absolute certainty. For the moment an individual has made such an emphatic claim, he has lost site of the means by which to enter God's eternal kingdom. He has placed Himself in the role of Divine judge and executioner.
He has placed Himself in the role of Divine judge and executioner.
I judged the faith, and not the actions and sins of the person. You would be absolutely right had I said that a "SINNER" will be cast in hell no matter what. But I did not do that, I judged the faith as practiced, as articulated by the others and in the light of our own standards. I acknowledge that many Muslims, Buddhists, Seaks, Hindos are better than myself, yet is salvation by deeds and works only ?
As such, unbelievers have SADLY no access to the Eucharist and are therefore not saved. Their sins stand as they are and they perish with it. I am not saying this with triumph or with cold blood, and I know it really hurts many because some of our relatives and friends might be under the same yoke, but truth is truth.
God is not sitting on a throne deciding where everybody is headed, so I am not assuming anybody's role. God has revealed to us the truth, and the most important if not the core of it is salvation. There is no speculation on matters so important and to say WE DO NOT KNOW whether unbelievers will perish or not is a result of a group-hug mentality and false ecumenism that has prevailed in our cultures and has now infiltrated the Church, but has no place in our faith.
I hope I have clarified my position more definitively.
Does God's mercy extend to those who, through no fault of their own, are not within the boundaries of the true Church?
Are we in a position to say who is damned and who not?
Would not we who read and write in this forum be in for a shock if we died only to find out we have been in the "wrong" Church if God had no mercy for the ignorant
Stay true to the teachings of the Church and pray for all people that we will obtain God's mercy together. Do these thoughts make me a heretic?
Look at all the blood shed through the ages, being shed right now, all in the name of defending "correct belief." Are you saying that this is what God wants?
Still, since we are living in the era of fascist fundamentalism, your words chill me to the bone.
Should we read the Old Testament as a prescription for genocide in a war against "God's enemies," as many fundamentalist Protestants and Jews are now proposing?
For me, such a "dogma" would make it very hard to distinguish between Christ and Antichrist, since Hitler himself used demon worship to promote the same agenda.
Yes, we are in such position and the Church has always maintained this. We do not judge actions, we judge the faith. WHat you are advocating here is a inconsistent cultural theory, political in its very core, group-hug mentality that finds no reference in scripture as explained in the light of Tradition. Examine the condemnation of Arius by Nicea, Nestorius by Ephesus and many other smaller cases of heresy in which a person was condemned for his faith to be outside the salvic power of the Cross.
Satvro i think you are forgeting that the coptic church is also considered are heritcal church.
Dioscorus supported Eutyches, Who was a heretic according to the Byzantines & the Romans
Not getting into who's right or not the copts are heretics for the Romans and greeks and Romans and Greeks are heritics for the copts, and of course, the greeks and romans call each other hereitics. But can anyone say where God stands in all this?
Each member of each church only belive what he or she has been told to believe.
tavro are u saying that just because they were born into another religion they are going to hell.
Didnt Jesus die on the cross for the sin of all people even the faithless.
Come on, stop these childish techniques and actually read my post. Those who rejected the faith perish. That includes everyone outside the Orthodox Church, and there is no other consistent view that could be given without logical flaws except the one I presented, because it is the Apostles' faith.
Personal attack removed. If we as the Orthodox people belive in a GOD that would send all who do not belive in him to Hell what kind of god is that it would go against all we learn in sunday school as young kids we were told that God is a merciful god.You use the term Orthodox alot but what u may like to over look the orthodox churches are not unified.and what faith did u follow before u became Orthodox?
The problem I see is that when we start discussing theology, the church fathers, and other churches we get too caught up in the technical differences and we forget the bigger broader one, that God is love.
I read the article by His Grace Metropolitan Bishop Pishoy, and I am really troubled by your assertion that there might be a chance for an unbeliever to obtain salvation outside the Apostolic Church. I did not find an Iota in His Grace’s article that support your claim
He is adamantly against the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding the salvation of the unbelievers, their marriage to believers or administering to them the Eucharist.
There is no salvation outside the Church, Holy Sacraments, Baptism, Holy Unction, Confession, partaking of the Eucharist,....... you can read a book by HH Pope Shenouda III, title “ Salvation in the Orthodox Concept. “
3- It is the Protestants who widely view salvation as only due to the grace of God, and we all know that is not what the loving Lord meant.