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Priests and the Sacraments

joegjoeg
edited December 1969 in Random Issues
I was arguing with my friend about this ... what if a priest (God forbid) was a drunkard or a fornicator or a thief - would the bread and wine still change for them into the Body and Blood of Christ? Or will the baptisms or ordinations they make be valid?

Basically, does the sins of a priest (however "bad") affect the validity of the Sacraments they partake in?

pray for me

joe

Comments

  • f753789f753789
    my opinion on this is i think it will change regardless of the sins of the priest...
    the priest is human and like each one of us sins.. he also  has his struggles and weaknesses
    -also in the liturgy of St. Cyril..if u ever read the silent prayers of the priest at one part it says
    "Because of my own sins and the abominations of my heart, deprive not ur pple of the coming down of ur Holy Spirit."
    so regardless the communion does change
    -another way of looking at it is y would God punish and deprive the entire congregation from the Holy Eucharist b/c the sins of one man(sorry it just seems illogical to me)..plus partaking of the Holy Communion is each individuals responsablity to be taking it worthily..thats something the priest solely needs to take care of
    this is all just wat i think..some1 pls pls correct me

    pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
    -sister in Christ

  • joegjoeg
    Thanks perfectsinner for your reply  :)

    pray for me

    joe
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6805.msg91196#msg91196 date=1213949124]
    I was arguing with my friend about this ... what if a priest (God forbid) was a drunkard or a fornicator or a thief - would the bread and wine still change for them into the Body and Blood of Christ? Or will the baptisms or ordinations they make be valid?

    Basically, does the sins of a priest (however "bad") affect the validity of the Sacraments they partake in?

    pray for me

    joe


    actually our church feels strongly about this. the Body and the Blood are changed through the power of the Holy Spirit not the priest. i think a story in the senixar i have heard once that a priest the was known to be an unrighteous person. so when came into church, someone (not sure who as the story goes) sees the angels cleaning of him the bad angels of his body. after liturgy he sees those bad angels that were on the priest come upon him again.
  • joegjoeg
    Ok fair point Mina, the Sacraments occur through the power of the Holy Spirit, through the priest.... meaning that the priest as an "intermediate" has no effect on the Sacraments' validity, except that he has to be there?

    pray for me

    joe
  • coptic youthcoptic youth
    that is true. Mina has pointed out the story of St. John of Shiheet.

    He once saw one of the priests, who was of bad reputation, coming to the church and the evil spirits surrounding him. When the priest arrived at the door of the church, the angel of the Lord came out from the sanctuary (Hekal) with a fiery sword in his hand and dismissed the unclean spirits. The priest entered the church and put on the service clothes and administered the liturgy and gave the Holy Communion to the people. After he was finished, he took off the service clothes and went out of the church, the evil spirits returned to him. This was what St. John said to his brethren the monks, to make them aware that there was no difference between a sinful and an unsinful priest in ministering the church sacraments. For it is for the sake of the people that the bread and the wine are transubstantiated to the Body and the Blood of Christ.

    He told them a parable, "As the picture of the emperor is imprinted on his seal that is made from iron or gold, and the seal is one, also the priesthood is one with the sinner and the righteous, and the Lord rewards everyone according to his deeds."

    http://www.copticchurch.net/synaxarium/4_30.html#1

    pray for my weakness,

    Coptic youth
  • joegjoeg
    Thanks so much for clarifying coptic youth

    pray for me

    joe
  • elsi70x7elsi70x7
    Thank you too. This subject has confused me! I read one book written by a Priest which said that we should go to Church and take the Eucharist no matter if the priests of the Church were thought to be bad because of that same parable. Then, however, some one came along and refuted it saying the priest was just a man and prone to mistakes! Confused again!  ???

    I mean the Holy Bible does say not to have fellowship with such.
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