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Contraception
I'm absolutely certain there has been discussions on this, but I really need a clear cut answer - from my understanding, the COC allows us to use methods of contraception such as condoms, which simply prevent the union of the sperm and the egg to from the zygote, but does not allow us to use methods such as the morning after pill, which kill the embryo, as we believe life begins at the moment of conception....
Please correct me if I'm wrong, or tell me if I'm right, I'm after the dogmatically correct answer.
Thank you all
pray for me
joe
Please correct me if I'm wrong, or tell me if I'm right, I'm after the dogmatically correct answer.
Thank you all
pray for me
joe
Comments
But one of the topics on this site said otherwise...
So now I'm not sure ?
Sorry I couldn't be of more help!
pray for me
joe
But I had NO idea Joe that the pill caused such things such as termination of the zygote. Gosh!
Is there a doctor here that can answer that?
The morning after pill does, and therefore it's an abortive pill (at least if u concider life to start from the conception).
Perhaps u'd like to have a look at these threads:
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=6537.0
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=5383.15
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=426.0
Emergency contraception (EC), or emergency postcoital contraception, refers to contraceptive measures that, if taken after sex, may prevent pregnancy.
Forms of EC include:
Emergency contraceptive pills (ECPs)—sometimes simply referred to as emergency contraceptives (ECs) or the "morning-after pill"—are drugs that act both to prevent ovulation or fertilization and possibly post-fertilization implantation of a blastocyst (embryo). ECPs are distinct from medical abortion methods that act after implantation.[1]
Intrauterine devices (IUDs)—usually used as a primary contraception method, but sometimes used as emergency contraception.
(Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_after_pill#Types_of_ECPs)
So yes the morning after pill can as hos erof said
pray for me
joe
I'm absolutely certain there has been discussions on this, but I really need a clear cut answer - from my understanding, the COC allows us to use methods of contraception such as condoms, which simply prevent the union of the sperm and the egg to from the zygote, but does not allow us to use methods such as the morning after pill, which kill the embryo, as we believe life begins at the moment of conception....
Please correct me if I'm wrong, or tell me if I'm right, I'm after the dogmatically correct answer.
Thank you all
pray for me
joe
Firstly, depending on when the "morning after pill" is used, is whether it is simply an abortificant or a contraception. I am not personally happy about either! But, until the embryo has implanted,the "sperm" and "oocyte" has only been fertilized. There has not been any exchange of nuclear material, and hence people do not consider (probably correctly?) that it does not cessate life (viz abortion; as we understand it), since there has been "no union" as such. The sperm has only penetrated the outer layer around the oocyte (the egg).
When you say the sperm has penetrated the outer area of the ovum, how long does it then take to reach the nucleus, and fuse to form a zygote... i though it was there was only minutes between the sperm reaching the ovum and fertilising it... because I seem to recall that when the first sperm penetrates the outer layer of the ovum, a mechanism kicks in to prevent other sperm from doing so.
pray for me
joe
the pill doesn't cause a termination of a zygote, exactly because it prevents the ovulation.
The morning after pill does, and therefore it's an abortive pill (at least if u concider life to start from the conception).
Perhaps u'd like to have a look at these threads:
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=6537.0
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=5383.15
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=426.0
Ahhh! So the morning after pill is in fact different than "The Pill"? THis is great to know. I've been against all sorts of artificial (medicinal types) methods of contraception. Both myself and my wife agree on this.
THe catholics have this thing called "the natural method". Its EXTREMELY complicated. Perhaps not for u matt, but ... i can tell u, i didnt understand a word of it.
Their natural method is where the couple only copulate during times when the woman is infertile, based on the menstrual cycle.... I could go into that but its not what I am after... whats the COC view on contraception... was I right first time?
lol.. yeah,now try and draw for me a diagram when she's infertile?!!
Its very confusing dude.
Its much easier to toss a coin.
Fertility awareness
Symptoms-based methods of fertility awareness involve a woman's observation and charting of her body's fertility signs, to determine the fertile and infertile phases of her cycle. Most methods track one or more of the three primary fertility signs:[16] changes in basal body temperature, in cervical mucus, and in cervical position. If a woman tracks both basal body temperature and another primary sign, the method is referred to as symptothermal. Some fertility monitoring devices use urinalysis to follow the levels of estrogen and luteinizing hormone throughout a woman's menstrual cycle. Other bodily cues such as mittelschmerz are considered secondary indicators.
Calendar-based methods such as the Rhythm method and Standard Days Method are dissimilar from symptoms-based fertility awareness methods, in that they do not involve the observation or recording of bodily cues of fertility. Instead, statistical methods estimate the likelihood of fertility based on the length of past menstrual cycles. Statistical methods are less accurate than fertility awareness methods, and are considered by many fertility awareness teachers to have been obsolete for at least 20 years.
Charting of the menstrual cycle may be done by the woman on paper or with the assistance of software. The calendar-based methods may use a device such as CycleBeads. Symptoms-based methods may be assisted by fertility monitoring devices that accept and interpret temperature readings, information from home urinalysis tests, or both. To avoid pregnancy with fertility awareness, unprotected sex is restricted to the least fertile period. During the most fertile period, barrier methods may be availed, or she may abstain from intercourse.
The term natural family planning (NFP) is sometimes used to refer to any use of FA methods. However, this term specifically refers to the practices which are permitted by the Roman Catholic Church — breastfeeding infertility, and periodic abstinence during fertile times. FA methods may be used by NFP users to identify these fertile times.
Ok Vas... Ill explain... we have three facts to rely on here:
1) A woman usually ovulates (releases an egg due to LH) as day 14 of the cycle, and if here cycle is 32 days, the she ovulates at day 16ish... so about half way.
2) Once ovulation has occurred, the sperm has only 24 hours within which to fertilize the egg in the woman's Fallopian tubes.
3) Sperm can survive for a week after intercourse.
With these facts, they try to piece together when she is infertile, so that pregnancy does not ensue using phases:
The first phase is the first infertile phase, or the first safe period when the woman is unlikely to fall pregnant. This starts on the first day of the woman's period and ends on the earliest date from which sperm could survive long enough to fertilize the egg. This first safe period is short because sperm can survive for up to seven days after intercourse and a woman may ovulate early. Therefore, unprotected intercourse during this first phase may result in pregnancy.
The fertile phase is the time when a woman is most likely to fall pregnant. Couples not wishing to become pregnant, should avoid intercourse during this time or use other methods of contraception such as condoms. If pregnancy is desired then this is the time when a woman is most likely to conceive. The fertile phase lasts from the end of the first phase until 24 hours after ovulation.
The second infertile phase or safe period when a woman is less likely to fall pregnant is more predictable than the first phase. This phase lasts from the end of the fertile phase until the beginning of the woman's next period.
This seems like mumbojumbo really, but they use 3 tests to determine the phases:
a)the calendar method
b)the temperature method
c)the mucus test.
And Im gonna stop there because I am tired of typing.
pray for me
joe
Or, wait a minute, are you saying fertilisation occurs at this point rather than at the momen of fusion to form a zygote!!! I though that fertilisation was when they fused...
pray for me
joe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstruation_cycle
It'll take a long time to explain everything in detail, so u better just read the article.
In short the cycle looks as follows:
day 1 day 14 day 28
menstruation ovulation menstruation
now day 14 of the cycle is important to us, because that's the time that the egg cell jumps from the ovary and a conception could occur.
Another important fact is that sperm cells can survive inside the female body up to 3 days under good conditions. Due to the hormonal changes, cervical mucus is produced creating a healthy atmosphere for sperm cells to swim and survive. Also the sperm cells themselves have some spare nutrition and a protective layer against the low pH in the female vagina.
Now, the so called fertile window (the most fertile period for a woman), is around 2 days before the ovulation. If you really want to be safe, you could abstain at least 4 days before the ovultion and a few days after, but this is only effective when the female has a very regular cycle which is not the case often.
Therefore the so called "natural planning" technique is not very reliable as an anti-conceptive method.
... anyway clay, please anwer my last post
pray for me
joe
Ok, so thats the mechanism, but my question was how long does it take for fertilisation to occur after this penetration?
Or, wait a minute, are you saying fertilisation occurs at this point rather than at the momen of fusion to form a zygote!!! I though that fertilisation was when they fused...
pray for me
joe
After penetration the sperm cells can survive up to 3 days (or perhaps a bit longer), and in the meanwhile the egg is waiting to for one of these champions to arive first. Conception is the moment one of the sperm cells enters the oocyte in order for the DNA to fuse together and form an embryo eventually!!!!!!
The fertile period is the period that theoratically this may occur, and that's a period of a around a week, concidering the fact that the sperm cells have to swim a longggggg time before they arive. Also, there could have been intercourse, a few days before the ovulation. Like I explained, this is still a fertile period.
Keep in mind however that the menstruational cycle may vary greatly, especially early after the menarche (young girls) and in the few years before the menopause.
pray for me
joe
Firstly, when the sperm penetrates the outside of the ovum (corona radiata), and then zona pellucida), the release of enzymes ensures other sperms do not penetrate. Meantime, then then, within the ovum, the oocyte must divide again, giving now the equivalent to a sperm (i.e. half the chromosomes). The sperm changes to become a male pronucleus, and the n after awhile it aligns with the female pronucleus (that contains the genetic information), and already starts to re-form.--> now it is a fertilized ovum. It already starts dividing before it implants (5-7 days later).
The time it takes for it to become a fertilized ovum after penetration, is not clear to me. But it is not very long, because it already divides (hence, genetic reformation must have already happened).
I am sorry I confused you. However, some doctors believe that life begins at implantation? I don't. It already has features of life:
1- growth
2- metabolism
3- rxn to stimuli
4- reproduction
Ofcourse, tumour growths also have these features. But this growth is one the mother participated in making, and usually does not, if precautions are taken, endanger the mother's life.
No man, you've misunderstood me. When I said penetration I meant the moment when the sperm breached the outer membrane of the ovum, I didn't mean sexual penetration i.e. coitus. So my question is how long does it take for the sperm to fertilise the egg AFTER it has penetrated it's outer membrane?
pray for me
joe
whops, my bad. Well, i agree with clay that the conception happens as soon as the egg is penetrated, because at that moment the cell is a so called zygote containing all 46 chromosomes.
Hence only methods of contraception which do not allow the sperm and ovum to fuse are permitted?
pray for me
joe
pray for me
joe
Another reason why they do not call it an abortificant is because you are not killing the fetus (in their view); you are just not allowing it to start growing. I think I am confusing you more, but unlike abortificants where you "rip" away the fetus, if you like, from the mother- with the morning after, it is not as violent- it just goes.
pray for me
joe