There are two possible explanations for this. The first is that, on the cross, Christ was truly alone. It was on Him to take on the sins of the world, and so at that moment, He was forsaken by God (to an extent). He was the sacrificial lamb, and so He felt the fullness of sin in His body. An analogy I tend to use to describe this is think of a person who is obsessive about being clean. They walk down the street and are splashed with mud. Their body is filthy and because they are so obsessed about being clean, their mind is repulsed by the mud on their body and they cannot bear to look at themselves. Same sort of idea here. God is perfect, holy and sinless. When Christ was on the cross, He became sin, as St. Paul tells us. Thus, using the analogy, we could say that the Father was 'repulsed' at the sin that stained His Son, and 'turned away' from Him at that moment in time.
The second possible explanation is that Christ was quoting the start of Psalm 22, 'My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?'. He may have been attempting to recite the entire psalm but didn't have the energy to complete it. I have heard it said that among rabbis, if one says the first line of a psalm, they are in essence drawing the attention of the people to that psalm. If you read the entire psalm, then it describes perfectly what was occurring before the people at that very moment. Here are some sample verses:
v. 6 - 8 'But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised by the people. All those who see me ridicule me;They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, "He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue him; Let Him deliver him, since he delights in Him!"
v. 14 - 18 'I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It has melted within Me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue clings to my jaws; You have brought me to the dust of death. For dogs have surrounded me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed me. They pierced my hands and my feet; I can count all my bones. They look and stare at me. They divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.'
In the liturgy we say that his divinity parted not from his humanity for a single moment nor a twinkling of an eye" that means he wasn't alone. he was always God ..... I dunno, i don't think your first explanition in general is theologically correct, check it with a priest or someone... 2nd explanation is fine.....
The best explanation for your inquiry: "Seven Words on the Cross" by His Holiness, Pope Shenouda III. An amazing book. One can read it in two hours. It gives amazing insight for this particular saying on the cross.
Exactly as "Ilovestmark" said: The answer is in HH's book:
here is the chapter concerning that phrase:
The Fourth Word "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" (Matt. 27:46). This statement does not mean a separation of the divine nature of Jesus Christ from His human nature, nor does it mean that the Father has forsaken the Son. It means rather that the Father has allowed Him to be tormented. His divine nature and His human nature were never separated for a single moment or a wink of the eye. That is what we firmly believe in and what we recite in the Holy Mass... If ever His divine nature deserted Him, His redemption could never have been considered as infinite, rendering infinite salvation, capable of atoning for the sins of all humanity throughout the ages. Thus, there was no rupture between His divine and human nature. As for His relationship with the Father, the Father did not forsake Him. Let us only consider this verse: "Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me" (John 14:1l). What is the meaning then of, "Why have You forsaken Me?" It does not mean a separation; it indicates only that the Father did allow that He should suffer; that He should bear the blame and suffer God's wrath over sin. That goes for the 43
emotional torment He underwent. As for the physical pain; God allowed that He should suffer physically though God, in His omnipotence, could have made Him insensible to pain. But, if that had happened, the Crucifixion would have been null and void - for pain would never have been experienced and consequently, no penalty has been inflicted, no acquittal effected and no redemption accomplished... Thus, the Father allowed that the Son should suffer, and the Son accepted that ordinance and was also afflicted by it. In fact Christ came to the world for that particular reason.. It was a rupture that both parties preconceived and agreed to... for the sake of humanity, and the Divine Justice... God allowed that Jesus should suffer, sacrifice Himself and be tortured but did not break away from Him... It was not a separation but rather a dispensation. God suffered that His Son should suffer but still loved him fully, "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him" (Is. 53:10). An example that may make the meaning easy to grasp: Suppose a parent accompanied his child to the hospital for an operation, let us say for the removal of an abscess; that the parent was holding the child's hand while the surgeon went on with his incision. The child would then start to cry and plead with his father not to let that happen to him saying to him, "Why did you forsake me? " 44
In fact, the father did not desert his child, he only allowed him to suffer since the operation was for his own good and he had only total care and love for his child. This incident, I would say, demonstrates how that could be considered abandonment without actual severance of ties. The word "Forsaken " means that the torment of Crucifixion was actual and that God's wrath was excruciating... The act of abandonment was the climax of all torment on the Cross; all torment of redemption... Here Christ resembles a burnt sacrifice. An offering to God for the atonement of sin - to be consumed by the divine fire until it turns to ashes and satisfies fully the Divine Justice.. A great number of theologians do believe that the Lord when saying, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me" was reminding the Jews of the Twenty-second Psalm which starts with the same verse. They were referred to as those who, Do not knowing the Scriptures (Matt. 22:29) while those Scriptures testified of Him (John 5:39). So the Lord Christ chose to remind them of this particular Psalm. Actually the system of numbering the Psalms was not known to the Jews. They used to identify each Psalm by its opening verse, as it is the custom among the Egyptian monks nowadays... What does this Psalm tell us about Jesus Christ? "They have pierced My hands and My feet, I can count all My bones; they look and stare at Me; they divide My garments 45
among them, And for My clothing they cast lots. " (Ps 22:16-18). It is all evident that David the Prophet, who composed this Psalm, had nobody pierce his hands or feet. Nobody parted his garments or cast lots upon his vesture. This verse was actually an inspired prophecy about Jesus Christ - as if Christ on the Cross was telling the Jews: "Go ahead and read the Psalm, starting with: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" and see what has been told about Me. You will see also that the following has been said about Me: "A reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they, that see Me, laugh Me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying: He trusted in the Lord that He would deliver Him, let Him deliver Him, seeing He delighted in Him " (Ps 22: 6 8). To analyze this entire Psalm would require more space than we have... It illustrates Christ's sufferings on the Cross. "Then He opened their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures." (Luke 24:45). All that the Psalm described began to be realised. Thus, He was able to say shortly after: "It is finished. " But why did they not say, "It is finished" right after His pronouncement: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" The reason is that there is another verse in this Psalm that was not yet realised which is: "My strength is dried up like a potsherd: and My tongue clings to My jaws. " (Ps. 22:15) this part will be realised later when He says: "I thirst ". That is why He said, "It is finished" right after. 46
Then why did the Lord Christ say: "My God, My God?" He said that in His capacity as a representative of humanity. He said that because He took the shape of a servant, and became similar to man. "But made Himself of no reputation. taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men " (Phil. 2: 7 and 8). He said these words because "He humbled Himself", "and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross" (Phil. 2:9) He spoke as the Son of man, who has taken over a human nature and taken man's position, and agreed to represent humanity before God, assumed all human sins and is paying off all their debts. Here we see that all humanity is talking through Him... As He assumed all human sins, and a sin is a separation from God and a cause of God's wrath, all humanity is crying through Christ, saying: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"... Christ represented humanity in so many things if not in all things! ! Christ did fast on our behalf: Adam and Eve were not able to abstain from the forbidden fruit and they plucked it and ate. As for Christ, He began His life by abstaining even from all edibles. He was in no need to fast, but He fasted forty days and forty nights as mentioned in the church hymns. 47
He represented us in observing God's law: "The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any who understand, and seek God. They have all gone aside, they have all together become corrupt; " (Ps. 14:2,3). When Christ came, He represented humanity in being obedient to God. He observed the Law, "To fulfil all righteousness" (Matt. 3:15) as He mentioned at the time of baptism. Thus, He acted the part of humanity in offering God a chaste and a gracious acceptable life... He represented us in death, torment and the atonement of sin: "For He has made Him to be sin for us who knew no sin" (2 Cor 5:21). He suffered all God's wrath for the sinful with all the bitterness therein. And as a representative of humanity said: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" And He who helped everybody and has never forsaken any person, was forsaken by all, even by the Father. In that way He paid off our debt and suffered God's wrath and emerged triumphant, having been tried emotionally and physically... He also gave us that a poignant lesson so that we may be more cautious. If sin would have as a consequence all such abandonment and pain, we should: "See then that we walk circumspectly" (Eph. 5:15). We should be wary about abandoning God so that God would not abandon us in turn. The 48
Son Himself has been forsaken. The torment of being abandoned is unbearable. We should thank our Lord Jesus Christ for all that love and for all His abnegation.. The words: "why have You forsaken Me?" should be a source of consolation for us when we encounter any difficulty. Knowing that if the Lord has not "Spared His Own Son" (Rom. 8:32), why should we grumble about whatever suffering God allows? God was pleased to put His own beloved Son to Grief. And in spite of His saying "This is My Beloved, Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17), why do we grumble at the moments of trial though we could never suffer as much as Christ suffered and though we deserve to be punished. The Son drank willingly the cup that the Father offered Him. He only said, "Your will be done" and was obedient until death on the Cross. His pronouncement: "why have You forsaken Me?" was not a complaint or protest, as we have said before but it was only an expression of the reality of His suffering and a declaration that the act of redemption is being realised... 49
Well really I don't think Christ actually meant that but as i heard before from a priest, that Christ was referring to Psalm 22. Here read it for yourselves and maybe you'll see my point.
NKJV: [center]Psalm 22[/center]
1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning? 2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear; And in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But You are holy, Enthroned in the praises of Israel. 4 Our fathers trusted in You; They trusted, and You delivered them. 5 They cried to You, and were delivered; They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and [b]despised by the people. 7 All those who see Me ridicule Me; They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, 8 “He trusted in the LORD, let Him rescue Him; Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”
9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb; You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts. 10 I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother’s womb You have been My God. 11 Be not far from Me, For trouble is near; For there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have surrounded Me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me. 13 They gape at Me with their mouths, Like a raging and roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, And all My bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It has melted within Me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And My tongue clings to My jaws; You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; 17 I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me. 18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.
19 But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me; O My Strength, hasten to help Me! 20 Deliver Me from the sword, My precious life from the power of the dog. 21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth And from the horns of the wild oxen!
You have answered Me.
22 I will declare Your name to My brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will praise You. 23 You who fear the LORD, praise Him! All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him, And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel! 24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from Him; But when He cried to Him, He heard.
25 My praise shall be of You in the great assembly; I will pay My vows before those who fear Him. 26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied; Those who seek Him will praise the LORD. Let your heart live forever!
27 All the ends of the world Shall remember and turn to the LORD, And all the families of the nations Shall worship before You. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD’s, And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth Shall eat and worship; All those who go down to the dust Shall bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep himself alive.
30 A posterity shall serve Him. It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation, 31 They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born, That He has done this.
Septuagint: [center]Psalm 22[/center]
22:1 O God, my God, attend to me: why hast thou forsaken me? the account of my transgressions is far from my salvation. 2 O my God, I will cry to thee by day, but thou wilt not hear: and by night, and it shall not be accounted for folly to me.
3 But thou, the praise of Israel, dwellest in a sanctuary. 4 Our fathers hoped in thee; they hoped, and thou didst deliver them. 5 They cried to thee, and were saved: they hoped in thee, and were not ashamed. 6 But I am a worm, and not a man; a reproach of men, and scorn of the people. 7 All that saw me mocked me: they spoke with their lips, they shook the head, saying, 8 He hoped in the Lord: let him deliver him, let him save him, because he takes pleasure in him. 9 For thou art he that drew me out of the womb; my hope from my mother’s breasts. 10 I was cast on thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.
11 Stand not aloof from me; for affliction is near; for there is no helper. 12 Many bullocks have compassed me: fat bulls have beset me round. 13They have opened their mouth against me, as a ravening and roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are loosened: my heart in the midst of my belly is become like melting wax. 15 My strength is dried up, like a potsherd; and my tongue is glued to my throat; and thou hast brought me down to the dust of death. 16 For many dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked doers has beset me round: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 They counted all my bones; and they observed and looked upon me. 18 They parted my garments among themselves, and cast lots upon my raiment.
19 But thou, O Lord, remove not my help afar off: be ready for mine aid. 20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my only-begotten one from the power of the dog. 21 Save me from the lion’s mouth; and regard my lowliness from the horns of the unicorns.
22 I will declare thy name to my brethren: in the midst of the church will I sing praise to thee. 23 Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye seed of Jacob, glorify him: let all the seed of Israel fear him. 24 For he has not despised nor been angry at the supplication of the poor; nor turned away his face from me; but when I cried to him, he heard me. 25 My praise is of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied; and they shall praise the Lord that seek him: their heart shall live for ever. 27 All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before him. 28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s; and he is the governor of the nations. 29 All the fat ones of the earth have eaten and worshipped: all that go down to the earth shall fall down before him: my soul also lives to him. 30 And my seed shall serve him: the generation that is coming shall be reported to the Lord. 31 And they shall report his righteousness to the people that shall be born, whom the Lord has made.
[quote author=KrazyLion link=topic=6108.msg81167#msg81167 date=1200769397] problem with your first explanation:
In the liturgy we say that his divinity parted not from his humanity for a single moment nor a twinkling of an eye" that means he wasn't alone. he was always God ..... I dunno, i don't think your first explanition in general is theologically correct, check it with a priest or someone... 2nd explanation is fine.....
I at no point said that Christ's divinity parted from Him while He was on the cross. What I did say was:
Thus, using the analogy, we could say that the Father was 'repulsed' at the sin that stained His Son, and 'turned away' from Him at that moment in time.
The Son never ceased being God. However, for that moment in time, He was completely alone, to experience the full consequence of sin: separation from God.
Comments
There are two possible explanations for this. The first is that, on the cross, Christ was truly alone. It was on Him to take on the sins of the world, and so at that moment, He was forsaken by God (to an extent). He was the sacrificial lamb, and so He felt the fullness of sin in His body. An analogy I tend to use to describe this is think of a person who is obsessive about being clean. They walk down the street and are splashed with mud. Their body is filthy and because they are so obsessed about being clean, their mind is repulsed by the mud on their body and they cannot bear to look at themselves. Same sort of idea here. God is perfect, holy and sinless. When Christ was on the cross, He became sin, as St. Paul tells us. Thus, using the analogy, we could say that the Father was 'repulsed' at the sin that stained His Son, and 'turned away' from Him at that moment in time.
The second possible explanation is that Christ was quoting the start of Psalm 22, 'My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?'. He may have been attempting to recite the entire psalm but didn't have the energy to complete it. I have heard it said that among rabbis, if one says the first line of a psalm, they are in essence drawing the attention of the people to that psalm. If you read the entire psalm, then it describes perfectly what was occurring before the people at that very moment. Here are some sample verses:
v. 6 - 8 'But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised by the people. All those who see me ridicule me;They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, "He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue him; Let Him deliver him, since he delights in Him!"
v. 14 - 18 'I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It has melted within Me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue clings to my jaws; You have brought me to the dust of death. For dogs have surrounded me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed me. They pierced my hands and my feet; I can count all my bones. They look and stare at me. They divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.'
In the liturgy we say that his divinity parted not from his humanity for a single moment nor a twinkling of an eye" that means he wasn't alone. he was always God ..... I dunno, i don't think your first explanition in general is theologically correct, check it with a priest or someone...
2nd explanation is fine.....
The answer is in HH's book:
here is the chapter concerning that phrase:
The Fourth Word
"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" (Matt.
27:46).
This statement does not mean a separation of the divine
nature of Jesus Christ from His human nature, nor does it
mean that the Father has forsaken the Son. It means rather
that the Father has allowed Him to be tormented.
His divine nature and His human nature were never separated
for a single moment or a wink of the eye. That is what we firmly
believe in and what we recite in the Holy Mass... If ever His
divine nature deserted Him, His redemption could never have
been considered as infinite, rendering infinite salvation, capable
of atoning for the sins of all humanity throughout the ages.
Thus, there was no rupture between His divine and human
nature.
As for His relationship with the Father, the Father did not
forsake Him. Let us only consider this verse: "Believe Me that I
am in the Father, and the Father in Me" (John 14:1l).
What is the meaning then of, "Why have You forsaken
Me?"
It does not mean a separation; it indicates only that the
Father did allow that He should suffer; that He should bear the
blame and suffer God's wrath over sin. That goes for the
43
emotional torment He underwent. As for the physical pain; God
allowed that He should suffer physically though God, in His
omnipotence, could have made Him insensible to pain. But, if
that had happened, the Crucifixion would have been null and
void - for pain would never have been experienced and
consequently, no penalty has been inflicted, no acquittal effected
and no redemption accomplished...
Thus, the Father allowed that the Son should suffer, and
the Son accepted that ordinance and was also afflicted by
it. In fact Christ came to the world for that particular
reason.. It was a rupture that both parties preconceived
and agreed to... for the sake of humanity, and the Divine
Justice...
God allowed that Jesus should suffer, sacrifice Himself and
be tortured but did not break away from Him... It was not a
separation but rather a dispensation. God suffered that His Son
should suffer but still loved him fully, "Yet it pleased the Lord
to bruise Him" (Is. 53:10).
An example that may make the meaning easy to grasp:
Suppose a parent accompanied his child to the hospital for
an operation, let us say for the removal of an abscess; that the
parent was holding the child's hand while the surgeon went on
with his incision. The child would then start to cry and plead
with his father not to let that happen to him saying to him,
"Why did you forsake me? "
44
In fact, the father did not desert his child, he only allowed
him to suffer since the operation was for his own good and he
had only total care and love for his child.
This incident, I would say, demonstrates how that could be
considered abandonment without actual severance of ties.
The word "Forsaken " means that the torment of
Crucifixion was actual and that God's wrath was
excruciating... The act of abandonment was the climax of all
torment on the Cross; all torment of redemption... Here Christ
resembles a burnt sacrifice. An offering to God for the
atonement of sin - to be consumed by the divine fire until it
turns to ashes and satisfies fully the Divine Justice..
A great number of theologians do believe that the Lord
when saying, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken
Me" was reminding the Jews of the Twenty-second Psalm
which starts with the same verse.
They were referred to as those who, Do not knowing the
Scriptures (Matt. 22:29) while those Scriptures testified of
Him (John 5:39). So the Lord Christ chose to remind them
of this particular Psalm. Actually the system of numbering
the Psalms was not known to the Jews. They used to
identify each Psalm by its opening verse, as it is the custom
among the Egyptian monks nowadays...
What does this Psalm tell us about Jesus Christ?
"They have pierced My hands and My feet, I can count all My
bones; they look and stare at Me; they divide My garments
45
among them, And for My clothing they cast lots. "
(Ps 22:16-18).
It is all evident that David the Prophet, who composed this
Psalm, had nobody pierce his hands or feet. Nobody parted his
garments or cast lots upon his vesture. This verse was actually
an inspired prophecy about Jesus Christ - as if Christ on the
Cross was telling the Jews: "Go ahead and read the Psalm,
starting with: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
and see what has been told about Me. You will see also that the
following has been said about Me:
"A reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they,
that see Me, laugh Me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they
shake the head, saying: He trusted in the Lord that He would
deliver Him, let Him deliver Him, seeing He delighted in Him "
(Ps 22: 6 8).
To analyze this entire Psalm would require more space than
we have... It illustrates Christ's sufferings on the Cross. "Then
He opened their understanding, that they might understand the
Scriptures." (Luke 24:45).
All that the Psalm described began to be realised. Thus,
He was able to say shortly after: "It is finished. " But why
did they not say, "It is finished" right after His pronouncement:
"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" The reason is
that there is another verse in this Psalm that was not yet realised
which is: "My strength is dried up like a potsherd: and My
tongue clings to My jaws. " (Ps. 22:15) this part will be realised
later when He says: "I thirst ". That is why He said, "It is
finished" right after.
46
Then why did the Lord Christ say: "My God, My God?"
He said that in His capacity as a representative of humanity.
He said that because He took the shape of a servant, and
became similar to man. "But made Himself of no reputation.
taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of
men " (Phil. 2: 7 and 8). He said these words because "He
humbled Himself", "and became obedient to the point of
death, even the death of the cross" (Phil. 2:9) He spoke as the
Son of man, who has taken over a human nature and taken
man's position, and agreed to represent humanity before God,
assumed all human sins and is paying off all their debts.
Here we see that all humanity is talking through Him...
As He assumed all human sins, and a sin is a separation from
God and a cause of God's wrath, all humanity is crying through
Christ, saying: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken
Me?"...
Christ represented humanity in so many things if not in
all things! !
Christ did fast on our behalf:
Adam and Eve were not able to abstain from the forbidden
fruit and they plucked it and ate. As for Christ, He began His
life by abstaining even from all edibles. He was in no need to
fast, but He fasted forty days and forty nights as mentioned in
the church hymns.
47
He represented us in observing God's law:
"The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of
men, to see if there were any who understand, and seek God.
They have all gone aside, they have all together become
corrupt; " (Ps. 14:2,3).
When Christ came, He represented humanity in being
obedient to God. He observed the Law, "To fulfil all
righteousness" (Matt. 3:15) as He mentioned at the time of
baptism. Thus, He acted the part of humanity in offering God a
chaste and a gracious acceptable life...
He represented us in death, torment and the atonement
of sin:
"For He has made Him to be sin for us who knew no sin"
(2 Cor 5:21). He suffered all God's wrath for the sinful with all
the bitterness therein. And as a representative of humanity said:
"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" And He
who helped everybody and has never forsaken any person,
was forsaken by all, even by the Father. In that way He paid
off our debt and suffered God's wrath and emerged triumphant,
having been tried emotionally and physically...
He also gave us that a poignant lesson so that we may be
more cautious.
If sin would have as a consequence all such
abandonment and pain, we should: "See then that we walk
circumspectly" (Eph. 5:15). We should be wary about
abandoning God so that God would not abandon us in turn. The
48
Son Himself has been forsaken. The torment of being
abandoned is unbearable. We should thank our Lord Jesus
Christ for all that love and for all His abnegation..
The words: "why have You forsaken Me?" should be a
source of consolation for us when we encounter any difficulty.
Knowing that if the Lord has not "Spared His Own Son" (Rom.
8:32), why should we grumble about whatever suffering God
allows? God was pleased to put His own beloved Son to Grief.
And in spite of His saying "This is My Beloved, Son, in whom I
am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17), why do we grumble at the
moments of trial though we could never suffer as much as
Christ suffered and though we deserve to be punished. The Son
drank willingly the cup that the Father offered Him. He only
said, "Your will be done" and was obedient until death on the
Cross. His pronouncement: "why have You forsaken Me?" was
not a complaint or protest, as we have said before but it was
only an expression of the reality of His suffering and a
declaration that the act of redemption is being realised...
49
NKJV:
[center]Psalm 22[/center]
1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.
5 They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
6 But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and [b]despised by the people.
7 All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 “He trusted in the LORD, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”
9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.
10 I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God.
11 Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have surrounded Me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me.
13 They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
19 But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!
20 Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.
21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!
You have answered Me.
22 I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.
25 My praise shall be of You in the great assembly;
I will pay My vows before those who fear Him.
26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the LORD.
Let your heart live forever!
27 All the ends of the world
Shall remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations
Shall worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD’s,
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth
Shall eat and worship;
All those who go down to the dust
Shall bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep himself alive.
30 A posterity shall serve Him.
It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation,
31 They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born,
That He has done this.
Septuagint:
[center]Psalm 22[/center]
22:1 O God, my God, attend to me: why hast thou forsaken me? the account of my transgressions is far from my salvation. 2 O my God, I will cry to thee by day, but thou wilt not hear: and by night, and it shall not be accounted for folly to me.
3 But thou, the praise of Israel, dwellest in a sanctuary. 4 Our fathers hoped in thee; they hoped, and thou didst deliver them. 5 They cried to thee, and were saved: they hoped in thee, and were not ashamed. 6 But I am a worm, and not a man; a reproach of men, and scorn of the people. 7 All that saw me mocked me: they spoke with their lips, they shook the head, saying, 8 He hoped in the Lord: let him deliver him, let him save him, because he takes pleasure in him. 9 For thou art he that drew me out of the womb; my hope from my mother’s breasts. 10 I was cast on thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.
11 Stand not aloof from me; for affliction is near; for there is no helper. 12 Many bullocks have compassed me: fat bulls have beset me round. 13They have opened their mouth against me, as a ravening and roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are loosened: my heart in the midst of my belly is become like melting wax. 15 My strength is dried up, like a potsherd; and my tongue is glued to my throat; and thou hast brought me down to the dust of death. 16 For many dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked doers has beset me round: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 They counted all my bones; and they observed and looked upon me. 18 They parted my garments among themselves, and cast lots upon my raiment.
19 But thou, O Lord, remove not my help afar off: be ready for mine aid. 20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my only-begotten one from the power of the dog. 21 Save me from the lion’s mouth; and regard my lowliness from the horns of the unicorns.
22 I will declare thy name to my brethren: in the midst of the church will I sing praise to thee. 23 Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye seed of Jacob, glorify him: let all the seed of Israel fear him. 24 For he has not despised nor been angry at the supplication of the poor; nor turned away his face from me; but when I cried to him, he heard me. 25 My praise is of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied; and they shall praise the Lord that seek him: their heart shall live for ever. 27 All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before him. 28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s; and he is the governor of the nations. 29 All the fat ones of the earth have eaten and worshipped: all that go down to the earth shall fall down before him: my soul also lives to him. 30 And my seed shall serve him: the generation that is coming shall be reported to the Lord. 31 And they shall report his righteousness to the people that shall be born, whom the Lord has made.
in his discussion on the phrase
[quote author=KrazyLion link=topic=6108.msg81167#msg81167 date=1200769397]
problem with your first explanation:
In the liturgy we say that his divinity parted not from his humanity for a single moment nor a twinkling of an eye" that means he wasn't alone. he was always God ..... I dunno, i don't think your first explanition in general is theologically correct, check it with a priest or someone...
2nd explanation is fine.....
I at no point said that Christ's divinity parted from Him while He was on the cross. What I did say was: The Son never ceased being God. However, for that moment in time, He was completely alone, to experience the full consequence of sin: separation from God.