Are All Popes Saints?????

gregorytheSinner

The reason I ask this is because in the Synaxarium and in H.H. Pope Shenouda's Book on St. Mark it states about
Pope Mark VI the following:

(in the Synaxarium (15th of Baramodah)
The Patriarch went to Upper Egypt and stayed there for four years, during which he collected much
money and was foolish in his conduct, to the point that all the people, bishops, priests, and lay leaders,
were exasperated. The dispute, existed between him and the archon Beshara, went on until he returned
to Cairo. He then reconciled with him, and his behavior was straighten after that.
(in "St. Mark" by H.H. Pope Shenouda III p115)
He was not on good terms with some of the pillars of the church and some
monks. He lived a stressful life.

also the Synaxarium tells us this awkward story about another Pope:

Pope John VII (Youannis)  (26th of Baramoudah)
After the lay leaders of Cairo had nominated Pope Gabriel III for the Papacy, some of the lay
leaders of Egypt agreed to choose Youannis Ebn Abi-Saaid El-Soukary. They threw an altar lot which
fell on Gabriel, but Youannis, the above mentioned, along with his supporters, quarreled with Gabriel.
Youannis nullified the result of the lot and was enthroned in the 6th. of Tubah 978 A.M....He remained on the Patriarchal Chair six years, nine months, and nineteen days, then he was dismissed....Youannis was reinstated by the order of El-Sultan on the 7th. of Tubah

Any Comments???

God Bless

minatasgeel

[quote author=gregorytheSinner link=topic=5271.msg70577#msg70577 date=1178141436]
The reason I ask this is because in the Synaxarium and in H.H. Pope Shenouda's Book on St. Mark it states about
Pope Mark VI the following:

(in the Synaxarium (15th of Baramodah)
The Patriarch went to Upper Egypt and stayed there for four years, during which he collected much
money and was foolish in his conduct, to the point that all the people, bishops, priests, and lay leaders,
were exasperated. The dispute, existed between him and the archon Beshara, went on until he returned
to Cairo. He then reconciled with him, and his behavior was straighten after that.
(in "St. Mark" by H.H. Pope Shenouda III p115)
He was not on good terms with some of the pillars of the church and some
monks. He lived a stressful life.

also the Synaxarium tells us this awkward story about another Pope:

Pope John VII (Youannis)  (26th of Baramoudah)
After the lay leaders of Cairo had nominated Pope Gabriel III for the Papacy, some of the lay
leaders of Egypt agreed to choose Youannis Ebn Abi-Saaid El-Soukary. They threw an altar lot which
fell on Gabriel, but Youannis, the above mentioned, along with his supporters, quarreled with Gabriel.
Youannis nullified the result of the lot and was enthroned in the 6th. of Tubah 978 A.M....He remained on the Patriarchal Chair six years, nine months, and nineteen days, then he was dismissed....Youannis was reinstated by the order of El-Sultan on the 7th. of Tubah

Any Comments???



well it was said that there is some that are not the best examples for saints. but i think they are considered Popes, as the highest rank in our church, more than they are considered saints. am sure if u search more you'll find some sayings of our Holy Synod about this idea.

copt-icboy

Interesting question.

Since we do not believe in the infallibility of the Pope, then we believe he may sin, just like the rest of the people. If he doesn't repent, then he can't be a saint.

Just my humble opinion

stgeorgebrooklyn23

well i think they all have been saints. another thing is that God choses a good person ( bishop ) to lead his people, and to teach them the word of God. For example... when pope kyrillos was picked with the other 2 bishops they took his name and put it in a samll basket ( then a little boy picks one )... so the little boy picked pope kryillos, they turned over the other two and they all had his name- this shows that God picks a strong pope and he knows that he will do what God told him to do.--so thats kinda my weird opinion lol

Anglican

Interesting question, but, just as with the Roman Catholics, not all our Popes have been saints.

The Synaxarium is very frank about the shortcomings of some Popes, but we have to remember that some of them (and John VII is a good example) lived in very difficult times and circumstances, especially with regard to Egypt's Muslim rulers, so we should not rush to judgement; who are we to judge them? Perhaps we would not have done even half as well as those whom we might be inclined to criticise.

Let us respect the history of the see of St. Mark and those who have exercised its authority; but we have no need to claim that every Pope was a saint - although surely, they are now because they are with Him in glory.

In Christ,

John