would you ever marry your cousin????

Unknown

hey guys, i'm lucy and im from egypt, how are you all???

i was just wondering, would you ever marry or consider marrying your cousin??

thank you
lucy

Unknown

Hi,

in the Old Testament, this was considered an abomination to the Lord - marrying anyone of close blood in the family.

God bless

Unknown

Cousin marriage is neither prohibited by the Bible nor by the Orthodox Church.

An excerpt from, Pages From Church History: Awlaad Al-Assal (1200 AD) A Preliminary Translation (in progress) by Dr. W.A. Hanna

30. There are two opinions amongst the Apostolic Churches, regarding one’s eligibility to marry according to the degrees of relative separation:

First Opinion: This opinion forbids marriage up to and including three degrees of separation, however approves of marriage according to the fourth degree. This is in following the Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, and other canon laws agreed to and approved of by many Church heirarchs over the years. It is a practice followed by the Coptic and Syrian Orthodox Churches. Such approval was regarded as necessary in certain regions where Christian population had dwindled. Fourth degree relations were approved for the sake of maintaining the faith. Fourth degree relations include cousins, and can be explained as follows: my grandparents (second degree) gave birth to my uncle/aunt (third degree), and thus my uncle’s/aunt’s children (my cousins) are separated by four degrees.

Second Opinion: The followers of the Emperor (Melkite followers of Marcian) forbade sixth degree elation marriages and approved of seventh degree relations. This opinion makes cousins marriage forbidden. Such is not acceptable to us (the Copts); furthermore, some of them, due to their own dwindling numbers in certain regions, violated this rule without distinguishing.

St. Mary & St. Abraam Coptic Orthodox Church 1843 Ross Ave.; St. Louis, MO 63146; USA

Safaa

I once heard, I would like anyone to correct me please if my view is wrong, that after the invasion of the Arabs to Egypt in the middle of the 7 th century and the Islam became the official religion, that the Coptic Pope allow such marriage between Coptic cousins. The reason for that:

1- The conversion of the Copts to Islam either by the use of force or the use of discrimination in hiring for jobs or from the high taxes “ Geeziah “ that was only enforced on Copts.
2- this led to, as Iqbal mentioned, to the dwindling numbers among Coptic’ men, that the Moslems kidnapped the young virgins and converted them to Islam.
To solve this huge problem, the Church allowed such marriage.

Ironically, a couple of weeks ago someone asked H.H. Pope Shenouda III in his weekly meeting, something related to this topic, but not exactly as the thread question, if I find it, I will post it here.

egyptionorthobeaut

well, i am from egypt too. but i don't know about marrying your cousins. even though most of my whole family married there cousins, i think it just doesn't seem right.

God bless*

Unknown

[quote author=ABasanti link=board=10;threadid=3053;start=0#msg45775 date=1137355742]
U people make me sick



ABasanti, you really shouldn't say that, because most of us here are egyptians, and please remember this, treat others how YOU want to be treated, and Safaa is right, but also, generation by generation we used to HAVE to marry our cousins, because back then, no one choosed the mate for the bride or groom except the parents of them, I THINK, please correct me, if i'm wrong!

Forever,
Coptic Servent

Unknown

I forgot to say, welcome coptickgurl!

Forever,
Coptic Servent

Believer in God

I did hear a question and answer session from Baba Shenouda III, where a person asked him about this same topic. (I think somebody just mentioned this in the thread). What he said, is that it is not wrong to marry a person who is related to you, such as cousins. When it becomes a problem, and I think it is more physical then spiritual, is when a person keeps marrying within the family from generation to generation, because what it does is it creates genetic weaknesses inside the family genes, so when that happens the children end up with various disabilities. To sum it all up, Baba Shenouda III said that if you end up marrying a close relative, like a cousin and the child is healthy then it's ok but not to continually marry inside the family.

Please pray for me always,
Believer in God

egyptionorthobeaut

i agree with coptic servent. it depends with there family traditions.

egyptionorthobeaut

yeah, why take that risk ???

mazza

personally, i could never think of my cousins that way
- i dunno, seems weird

Unknown

thanks for your replies

i just wanted to know what you think because in egypt it seems normal, so i didnt know how to react to it

coptickgurl

Unknown

Safaa,

Cousin-marriage was common amongst the Orthodox, and it was a practise upheld as valid by canon law since the days of Nicaea (4th century). Its being sanctioned by authority thus came about much earlier than the Arabisation of Egypt.

mazza

does it still happen today in western countries like america and australia?

Unknown

Maybe, I guess if you immigrated from another country to america ya, but people in america think that it's disgusting to marry one of your relatives! I don't know if it happens some place else.

Forever,
Coptic Servent

Unknown

I doubt it would be common in Western societies due to the negative stigma attatched to it. However, we must be objective and recognise the fact that this negative stigma associated with such a practise is relative to contemporary Western society and culture.

Though the Bible prohibits a range of relationships, it does not prohibit cousin marriage, and the early Church upheld the validity of cousin marriage by canon law.

Are we going to judge this practise according to the eternal truth upheld by the Prophets and the Church? Or are we going to judge it based on contemporary western society and culture? You make the decision for yourself.

Unknown

I might like to add, that I being a Copt raised in western society, find the practise personally distasteful, so I am not advocating or recommending it. What I am saying however, is that we have no right to condemn it - we cannot say it is morally incorrect, even if it is personally distasteful to us, because our natural feelings towadrs the subject are shaped by the society and culture we live in.

Unknown

You bring up a good point regarding possible health risks; however, I believe modern medical research has debunked the theory that cousin marriage incurs a "special risk" of any possible offspring being deformed or impaired. I guess it's something that would need to be researched.

mazza

[quote author=Iqbal link=board=10;threadid=3053;start=15#msg45823 date=1137387326]
You bring up a good point regarding possible health risks; however, I believe modern medical research has debunked the theory that cousin marriage incurs a "special risk" of any possible offspring being deformed or impaired. I guess it's something that would need to be researched.


thats actually true. i was reading an article on the internet that said some of the stigma attached with deformed/disabled babies etc has been greatly exagerated and most of the concerns that people have about giving birth to diasbled babies are myths. so like iqbal said- we should do furthur research before saying anything

mazza

mikeforjesus

Leviticus 18 - Laws of Sexual Morality... there are a number of abominations there I think but there is no sexual immorality mentioned there between cousins I think.

mazza

[quote author=MarMar91 link=board=10;threadid=3053;start=15#msg45816 date=1137386356]
its not common in america, how bout australia??... lol

but i actaully do know some people, but ya, they are egyptian..

but its not common here...



i know like 2 or 3 couples

Michael_Thoma

Cousin marriage is only dangerous in the First degree - anything further is very very unlikely

As far as Americans, most wouldn't know anyone outside their First cousins anyhow (they don't even refer to them as cousins), so even if they married their cousins they wouldn't know.

It was a common practice for the English to only let the royalty marry within the family. For example, Queen Elizabeth is married to her (i think) 4th cousin Prince Philip.

Usually only Muslims would marry their first cousin, it is forbidden in all of Christianity upto the 4th and not really practiced upto the 6th ot 7th.

Unknown

Usually only Muslims would marry their first cousin, it is forbidden in all of Christianity upto the 4th and not really practiced upto the 6th ot 7th.

I refer you back to the quotation pasted and referenced in my first post on the first page of this thread, which clarifies the fact that 4th degree marriage i.e. first cousin marriage, and is in fact deemed permissible by the Church:

An excerpt from, Pages From Church History: Awlaad Al-Assal (1200 AD) A Preliminary Translation (in progress) by Dr. W.A. Hanna

30. There are two opinions amongst the Apostolic Churches, regarding one’s eligibility to marry according to the degrees of relative separation:

First Opinion: This opinion forbids marriage up to and including three degrees of separation, however approves of marriage according to the fourth degree. This is in following the Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, and other canon laws agreed to and approved of by many Church heirarchs over the years. It is a practice followed by the Coptic and Syrian Orthodox Churches. Such approval was regarded as necessary in certain regions where Christian population had dwindled. Fourth degree relations were approved for the sake of maintaining the faith. Fourth degree relations include cousins, and can be explained as follows: my grandparents (second degree) gave birth to my uncle/aunt (third degree), and thus my uncle’s/aunt’s children (my cousins) are separated by four degrees.

Second Opinion: The followers of the Emperor (Melkite followers of Marcian) forbade sixth degree elation marriages and approved of seventh degree relations. This opinion makes cousins marriage forbidden. Such is not acceptable to us (the Copts); furthermore, some of them, due to their own dwindling numbers in certain regions, violated this rule without distinguishing.

St. Mary & St. Abraam Coptic Orthodox Church 1843 Ross Ave.; St. Louis, MO 63146; USA

Cousin marriage is only dangerous in the First degree - anything further is very very unlikely

Dr. Martin Ottenheimer, professor of anthropology at Kansas State University, analyses and researches the genetic implications of first-cousin marriage in his book Forbidden Relatives, and comes to the conclusion that contemporary genetic evidence debunks the notion that children conceived of such unions are at any unique risk.

mazza

so is it actually against the law in america or australia?

Unknown

thank you all for your replies

mazza

apparently its legal to marry your cousin in australia

http://www.ag.gov.au/agd/WWW/agdhome.nsf/0/3C5026F776D5CAAFCA2570600008A4AD?OpenDocument#14

"7. Marriage to a Relative

The Marriage Act prohibits people marrying:

an ancestor or descendant; or
their brother or sister (whether whole blood or half-blood siblings)
These restrictions also apply to adoptive relationships even if these have been annulled, cancelled, discharged or cease to be effective for any reason (for example, due to a subsequent adoption order being made).

This means, for example, that a person cannot marry their parent, grandparent, child, grandchild, brother or sister. However, (depending of course on the sex of the party) a person may marry their aunt or uncle, niece or nephew, "first" cousin or step-sibling."

mazza

most states in america allow cousin marriages

http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states

(its stated in this website)

Unknown

I'm from America, I'm married to my first cousin, and I have 2 beautiful children.

I dont see whats wrong with it,.

It was according to God's will- not because of what you portray in society!

Honestly, America opens its arms to Gay and Lesbians but rejects cousin marriages?

Do u see my point.
Its absolutely ridiculous

Pray for us all,
Lucy

StVictor

You are truly blessed to have these gifts because sometimes married cousins may have children with biological defects.

Unknown

my parents are first cosind...so my grandads are brothers n i turned out PERFECTLY fine....

jesusnumba1 you have a GREAT BIG point with the gay n lesbians!!!

n yes i would marry ma cousins only becaseu i dont really know them..i dont mind about da blood fingi n the defect thing is very rare!!

mazza

thats great to hear another side of the story

maybe we go too far

thanx for your comments 1cross3nails4given
p.s welcome to this site ;D