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Coptic Orthodox Church
can they see us???
edited December 1969
hello all..... my question is....those who enter the Kingdom of Heaven....can they see us as God Himself can?
well...saints can feel us thats why when we pray they help us or whatever we want!!
but i don't hitnk they can see everything as good because no one is like god!!
I think they can, because i learned that those in the Kingdom of Heaven achieve all worldy knowlege. It makes sense that they can see everything and know everything. But i don't think they can read our thoughts like God can.
[glow=red,2,300]a little correction[/glow]
NO who has died, that has entered the kingdom of heaven. right now all the rightous and the just people who had died, are in the paradise of joy which is the waiting place for the Eternal Kingdom of Heaven which will open on the last day when in the second coming of our lord. and i think they do see like snadrahanna said cause when you ask for their prayers and they help you if it's in God's well.
Yes of course. But I think those in the Paradise of Joy can see us and have all wordly knowlege.
I tend to agree with the previous response. I am most certain that the God of all glories has created the Heavens to be more grand and holding more precision then any form of sensual competence we may hold, here, in our earthly bodies. In Paradise, not only will we see the innumerable myriads of saints, but we will stand before the corner stone where the Almighty Himself is present.
(*This, ofcourse, will be in no comparison to the magnificence of the Heavenly glory we will witness after His second coming.)
These are my reasons why I believe so
*It first important that one defines the entirety of the Heavens God creates. As such;
The "third Heaven" is one of two fold; Paradise is the realm where the glorified rest. Hades is is the realm where the demonic go to exist.
The Holy Scriptures tell us;
In 2 Corinthians 12:3-5
And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.."
Here, we see that Saint Paul is taken up into the "third heaven";
to Paradise. (The Second Heaven consists of the cosmological "heavenly" bodies, such as space, planets,etc.)
Notice, that Saint Paul is able to "hear"---hear words of an inexpressible language. It is this "hearing" that demonstrates a voice that is heard. It is a voice, presumingly God's voice, that utters the inexpressible language to Saint Paul.
We are given the first clue
In Paradise we will hold the ability to "hear"; even though it is a hearing entriley different then the physical hearing we presently hold.
(It is able to hear an inexpressible language, and yet it still utterable. Our present senses allow us only to utter what is expressible.)
In Luke 16 with the parable of The Rich man and Lazurus;
"So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."
In this passage; we are informed that the rich man was tormented in "Hades".
This is essentially significant since the
of the passage is illustrated for us
. This is an event that occurs within the realm of the "third heaven", encompassing Hades and Paradise.
We are also told that Lazarus "was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom." (Here Abraham is representative of our Lord and God. Later we are told that Lazarus cries out for mercy to the "Father" Abraham)
Now if Lazarus is carried to Paradise by angels; angels whose sole purpose is to minister to Our Heavenly Father, then we might ask what happened to the angels afterwards. Now if angels are ministers to the Most High then they would most assurdley have remained with Lazurus and the Father Abraham.
This gives us second and third clue;
there is a sense of some "physicality
"--the angels were able to "carry" Lazurus. In Paradise, it therfore is likley that we will hold some sense of "feeling".....,although it is probably much more different then that on earth. It is a feeling that presumably, surpasses the physical laws of Nature as we experience it on earth.
(Also note; that in the same parable, the rich man implores Our Father to let Lazurus "dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue". This would suggest some sense of feeling as well)
there is the very presence of the angels in Paradise
. It is likley that we will not only see Christ, but even more so angels ministiring to Him....even before entering the kingdom of Heaven.
Note, also that the rich man in the parable "lifted up his eyes and saw" He was able to see both Abraham and ,even more so, Lazurus in his bosom.
This gives us the fourth clue;
There is the sense of sight as we enter Paradise
. If indeed we were unable to see anyone but Our Lord, then The rich man would not have lifted up his "eyes" to look at Lazurus. In fact, there would be no way of knowing Lazurus was even with Abraham. This suggests that not only will we see one another in Paradise (including the saints) but even those in Hades will be able to see everyone other individual as well.
(PS: This "sight" is much more different then sight as we know it now, and prehaps even differnet in terms of what "eyes" we will have. The exapnse of the gap betwwen Hades and Paradise must be emense. It was too "great" of a gulf for Lazurus to cross over. Therfore, the rich man's sight must have been far greater then the mere 20/20 vison we might have now. His perception is soo acute that he is able to see Lazarus clearly from a very great distance away.)
Finally, I want to point to verses 27 & 28 of the chapter. The rich man specifically requests that Lazarus be
to his father's house, so that he may testify to the rich man's brothers.
This gives us our last clue
If Lazarus was unable to reach the realm of the "first heaven", earth and, prehaps beyond, then Our Lord would have told him that Lazaurs was unalbe to, just as He previously noted with the gap. Yet, He says nothing to that nature. Instead He explains that even if Lazurus did go, his brothers would not have a change of heart.
it is reasonable to imply that those In Paradise, not only can keep watch over those on earth
(As the rich man had over his brothers),
but are capable of visiting those on earth if God "sends" them
. Our physical state in Paradise will hold the ability to travel to the vast corners of the earth, oceans and who knows where else. Yet, it is only through appointment by God.
(Note: The rich man did not ask God to go himself to meet the brothers. This may be due to his lack of self competence and humility before God, or more likley, that he was unable to do so being in the realm of Hades.
;)What a drag it must be then for those in Hades..... not being able to travel the vast expanses of the first and second heavens. )
I hope this helps,