awkward question

edited December 1969 in Personal Issues
hi everyone... this is a reali awkward n tuff question to ask because as copts... we dun usually talk about this kinda stuff... but i hope that none of u guys get offended... and i'm so so sori if u do!
i was just wondering why it is considered so wrong to sleep with someone before u get married...although u know ur going to marry this person... who is the only person u've only ever slept with...? does that make sense.... like all the youth meeting teachers n Priests n stuff go on about it like its the end of the world... i dun reali understand... can anyone help me out here?? ???

God Bless You

p.s: apologies again for such a question :-[


  • what made u so sure whats gonna happen in the next 5 seconds?
    who said those 2 people might get married??
    and if they did such a thing and they didn't get married that will be a sin!!
  • Hi,
    I really get disturbed >:( >:( >:( >:( with these kind of questions because most of our Coptic Priests and Sunday teachers doesn't provide the appropriate knowledge of sex to Coptic teens. I believe that sex should be a part of Sunday school teaching to educate out teens, instead of leaving them wondering around picking info from suspicious sources. Our teens have the right to ask sexy questions :D in Church. I know it sounds funny, but I am very very serious.

    First off, Coptic21 you did not have to apologize like crazy. Sex is holly and God created it and blessed it in marriage.

    I am sorry I have to go I have a test. But before I go think what is the difference between adultry and marriage? What is the difference between love and lust? Why God created sex? :D Did I make it more complicated?! I am sorry I got to go :-\ and btw your question is not awkward and it is not non-Orthodox. Oops I am late :o
  • premarital intercourse is wrong. There is nothing else to say about it.
  • Coptic21:

    Whoever said these two people will marry..."they know" what?! We don't know what's gonna happen in the next 5 seconds....

    Second....why did God bless as for it to be a vessel to pour out our sexual energies....if yes, then nothing is wrong with what you said....

    But God allowed and blessed marriage to help the two partners to go to HIM in the end...that's the point...the two partners' you think, that by allowing ourselves to dive unheedened into phyisical love, that we'll go to HIM in the end?

    Let me add another small point...the union of a man and a woman in our holy marriage is like the union of Christ and his church...that's what the Bible teaches us, and the sayings of the first fathers in our church...."the union between a man and a woman" includes everything in it, INCLUDING's very holy when we truly understand it the way God (and thus the church) teach us....

    May God protect us all,

    In HIS Name,

  • first of all it is adultery

    "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

    Second of all, why would someone do that?, it is beacause they thought about it and desire it, wich is also wrong since we must remain pure.
  • [quote author=a_deacon link=board=12;threadid=2735;start=0#msg42229 date=1131481100]
    first of all it is adultery

    "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

    Second of all, why would someone do that?, it is beacause they thought about it and desire it, wich is also wrong since we must[glow=red,2,300]remain pure[/glow].

    Oh yeah?! like you never thought about it. "remain pure" Ok Mr pure try to understand our weakness, we the unpure.
  • why are u so mad?
  • He said we must be pure, not that he is pure.
    Relax i don't think he is gloating or boasting, he is just preching.
    Indeed, we must be pure.
  • there is no reason for any1 to be upset, Athanasius,...we are all talking in general times, not to anyone specifically, if anything, the posts help us remind ourselves what not do, its kind of we are waking ourselves up when we write,....posts are not meant to upset any1:)

    ......none of us are pure from sins even though our life on earth be a single day (we say this in the liturgy in the litany for the departed). But just because none of us are pure or perfect, that doesnt mean that we shouldnt try to be "perfect as our father in heaven is perfect" Matthew 5:48

    Yes we are weak, but we have to try our best to overcome our weaknesses, through Christ's strength. We have to try to keep our thoughts pure, and keep in mind, that our bodies are not ours, but they are Christ's, because Jesus lives in us, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?" 1 Cor. 6:19.

    So before doing anything wrong we have to remember, that we were bought at a price, and it wasnt a cheap one, it was the precious blood of Jesus. Is the sin that I am going to do, worth losing the one who died for me? Why am I leaving the One who has loved me with an everlasting love, for the love of the world, that doesnt love me at all. Why am I leaving the One who died for me, for the world that puts to death my soul??? Why am I leaving the One who upon His head was put a crown of thorns for my sake, for the world that wounds me with the thorns of sin??

    it is wrong, because it is giving away something that doesnt belong to you, you are the daughter or son of Jesus, not of the world, God gave you a body, He created you in His image, and He dwells inside of you, so you shouldnt mis-use the body that He has given to you, the body which was consecrated with the mayroun oil when you were baptized, so that every part of it would be holy. Any sin separates us from Jesus, so we have to try not to sin, so that we do not crucify Him once more.
  • hey everyone... thank you all for ur posts... i didn't mean for it to stir up any probs between people....

    Athanasius... i think u r rite in saying that we as youth should be educated about this IN CHURCH and we should be provided with better explanations...

    Maryann... thanx for ur link...

    sandrahanna and StVictor.... i do understand that sex b4 marriage is a sin.... but my question was why??? and sori... coz i felt u guyz got a bit touchy with this topic...

    rf_zachari thanx for ur detailed explanation.... n ur question makes a lot of sense wen i thought about it... i guess committing such a thing will put a greater distance between the person and the Lord!

    a_deacon i know we must remain pure... but understand that this world is full of "lustfull desires" as said in the liturgy....and some of us r unfortunatly too weak to overcome them...
    PrincessMary...thank you as always for ur wise words... i think this makes sense to me now....

    this world is full of sin... and it is truly disgusting...wen u think about it... its very odd to think about how much things have changed... The Lord used to speak directly to his people... and now that doesn't happen... because... this world is over flowing with sin and as sad as it is... so many of us r falling into the trap....
    EVERYBODY....pray for ur protection from these things and put ur hope in God that u never have to see such evil doings...

    God Bless...
  • [quote author=StVictor link=board=12;threadid=2735;start=0#msg42215 date=1131466792]
    premarital intercourse is wrong. There is nothing else to say about it.

    Hi all,
    Forgive me. I said from the beggining that I get disturbed with these kind of questions.

    I understand that we have to be "perfect as our father in heaven is perfect" Matthew 5:48. But when it come to down to earth questions that our closed minded community (due to influence of sick Muslim culture) regard as inappropriate, the answer can't be "remain pure" or "premarital intercourse is wrong. There is nothing else to say about it." It doesn't help. Teens have questions and need answers. What made the Coptic faith solid is a strong believe and strong knowledge, not just abstract facts such as "it is adultry" or "it is unpure." Hey, we all know that it is adultry and it is unpure, but the question was why?That was my point.

    a_deacon, I repeat frogive me.
  • And honestly, I hate when Copts seek the perfect answer from the Bible to be praised from others, like talking about purity and prayers.

    The other day I told my Coptic class mate that I lost my biochemistry binder and all my notes. "I will pray for you," he replied. :o What? "How about copying your notes," I thought. "Well, I appreciate that brother and I will pray for you to cuz I think you got a major problem," I said back. I understand and I believe that praying is sooooooooo powerfull but his answer was retarded.
  • And honestly, I hate when Copts seek the perfect answer from the Bible to be praised from others, like talking about purity and prayers.

    Where do u want us to seek the answers from then ???
  • i agree. Abouna Bishoy said the answer to all temptations is the Bible. God gave every answer to every sin you can imagine in that book.
  • we attempt to understand the Bible by ourselves?

    Come on...there has to be SOME kind of precedence, right? Our father saints MIGHT be of some use to us, don't you think?

    My dear brothers and sisters....the answer is not in the Bible per se, nor in one thing in the church per's in all these things's a WAY OF LIFE...called Christianity...

    Once we truly live by this way of life (and that'll take a lifetime to complete, yet a second to start on the right path :) ), then all these then-relatively pathetic questions will be solved by themselves...

    In HIS Name,

  • [quote author=AthanasiusTheApostolic link=board=10;threadid=2735;start=0#msg42273 date=1131542193]
    but the question was why?

    why is a question that can go on forever:

    [center]why do go to school? to get an education
    why do we need and education? to get a job
    why do we need a job? to get money
    why do we need money? to buy food
    why do we need food? to live
    why do we need to live?

    eventually we must say:
    this is how it is! or its God's will u must accept it!

    So now is your question: why is adultery wrong?

    you can ask that question to any couple. it is because they are jealous of the other person their partner is with. We can apply to our relationship with God: we are the brides of christ and our God is a jealous God.

    "for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God"Exodus 34:14

    "For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God." Deuteronomy 4:24

    (there are tons of other verses saying that)

    once the couple is married then it is not adultery because all three of them are united
  • nice explanation
  • well here are some straight out answers from the Bible just to back that up...

    Timothy 5:19-24
    Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

    (1 Cor 6:18) but he that commits fornication sins against his own body.

    As obedient children not fashioning yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance, but as He which has called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation" (I Peter 1:14-15)

    As you can see, sex before marriage is completely wrong....
  • Here is an answer to why? Have you ever thought about how destructive sex outside of marriage can be on one's life. It is a sin that defiles man from within and without. Ask most reputable psychiatrists and they will tell you that sexual addictions are harder to break than addictions to drugs like heroin or Oxycontin. Sex can take over one's life. Therefore, we must use it as God intended, only in marriage. If you do that God will bless it and make it a source of unity and joy in your marriage.

    I guess you could get philosophical and ask why God created it this way. At this point I say to you who are we to question God.
  • [quote author=Marianne87 link=board=10;threadid=2735;start=0#msg42307 date=1131566643]

    And honestly, I hate when Copts seek the perfect answer from the Bible to be praised from others, like talking about purity and prayers.

    Where do u want us to seek the answers from then ???

    I noticed that the answers on this forum are so perfect. That contradicts with real life. Unless we are all saints on this forum (plz dont reply and say no we are not, but we are trying cuz i know that). I thought that might be because of the religious nature of this forum. So, I just wanted to mention that when refrencing the Bible don't just copy past, be sure that you are really convinced about what you say. That sall.

    Of course, I didn't mean that we shouldn't refrence the Bible, we aught to refrence the Bible all the time. But, just be aware not trun to Kataba and Fereceyeen (whoever know the english trans, plz ins message me). That was my first point.

    My second point was: Christianity is deeper and wealthier than abstract facts. So when the question is why, the answer cant be because it is wrong, a better way to say why or refrence the Bible, a Saint, or a clergy who explained why. Don't just refrence the Bible saying that it a sin, it is wrong, it is not pure. Christianity is a deep solid religion, so dont make it look superfecial. Thats my opinion.

    I liked a_deacon and KBibo8 posts because they have some insight and they refrence the Bible. But check most of the posts are stating that sex out of marriage is wrong. If you read coptic21 question carefully, she stated that she or he knows that it is wrong but she was seeking more explanation. So, an answer that says that it is wrong is kind out of point.
  • u're right....

    but Coptic21...plz plz understand...

    I'm sorry I'm not good in the English Bible (from Egypt), but look...once you truly TRY to love God...then forget that anything else will truly give you love....especially if it's not is sync with what God wants of us as his children who try to love him....

    In HIS Name,

  • [quote author=rf_zachari link=board=10;threadid=2735;start=15#msg42356 date=1131665059]
    I'm sorry I'm not good in the English Bible

    You can always go to and lookup passage if you know the refrence (el-shahead)
  • ok here i go

    guy (except athanasius) thanks for the nice BIBLICAL answers and at the same time thankyou athanasius for bringing us down to earth......

    now coptic 21: if they are going to get married (hopefully soon) couldnt sex wait till then....if it couldnt ...then it would be an act of lust n there are even more passages related to lust...if that gave u another perspective

    glad to be of help

    n every one take a chill pill...or two...

    byye marina (call me tadpole) ;D

    make that 3 pills afta u read my post!!!
  • why.... i know all this stuff about waiting till after marriage and stuff about lust and how it is a sin... i just needed to understand EXACTLY wat it means to commit such an act in the eyes of Our Father....

    thanx for ur post
    God Bless
  • OH i forgot...i need to ask sumfin else about this....
    i don't understand how such a thing is confessed? i don't understand how one could go to their FOC and tell them this..? Any ideas about what Abouna would say or what Abouna won't say....? I would think that this would be one of the most embarassing things to tell Abouna ....

    God Bless and Protect Us All
    Coptic 21
  • ur FOC is your FATHER who really really loves you...simple.

    Second...u're not actually confessing to a person per se, but the priest, as a loving father, will guide you as he was guided, to God's path...and will give you absolution because God gave them that power by HIS holy the end...the "entity" that actually forgives sins is GOD himself....besides....we don't confess because we're afraid of's because we LOVE him actually...and thus always return to him and say "Sorry sir...hep me to be steadfast in ur path"

    That's also what EXACTLY the Father thinks of this sin....anything from God is included....anything that isn't from him, isn't holy...

    Look...your body was blessed with a true second birth in Baptism, and was made God's special vessel of the Holy Spirit..."Ama ta3refoon inakom hayakel Allah ya Roo7 Allah saken feekom?" (somebody translate this verse plz) GOD, in his infinite love that was shown at the cross, is actually in US....

    How then can we sin?? We do because we're weak...but to actually know the above and still knowingly God protect all of us...(I'm not saying you do...but I'm speaking generally)

    When we sin, especially that one, we actually strive, knowingly or unwittingly, to seperate ourselves from the do u like that?? Like Joseph in the old Testament said "Kayf af3al hatha el shar el 3azeem waa okhtee2 ilaa Allah?"

    What our Father thinks is sadness....really..sadness...because his son/daughter is actually not looking at Him any more and is looking for his own pleasure...

    ""Ya7foroon lee anfosihim abaar mooshakaka laa tadbot maa2...waa tarakoonee ana yanboo3 el ma2 el 7ay" (Armia 2:4)

    In HIS Name,

  • rf_zachari thanx for ur reply....
    this really confuses me....wen it is confessed do u actually tell ur FOC that u had "sex" or i committed a sexual act....which doesn't EXACTLY tell ur FOC that u had could be anything else thats sexual....

    God Bless
  • Let me ask you as a sister:

    Does this person still really really like lustful sex? I mean if yes...then what is he/she confessing it for? For doing it again?

    I mean...if I am honestly trhful in not doing this sin again, so that My Father in heaven isn't sad with me, then I will by myself confess to everything in me with sufficient detail so as not completly open myself up to my father confessor...whom the Lord will use to get them to HIM in the end...

    In HIS Name,

  • rf_zachari.... i don't understand wen u say if the person still likes lustful sex, why r they confessing? for doing it again? do u mean that if someone continues to have lustful sex...there is not point in confessing coz they're going to keep doing it?

    and u have any idea if Abouna will bring up marriage in the sense that now that one has committed such a sin b4 marriage...they cannot marry...even the one they committed this sin to???? does that make sense...? sori for all these weird questions....its just i hear of this stuff happening within the church...n i dun understand the process of how one is to deal with it.....

    God Bless
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