The following communication was in response to a topic headed by Iqbal to do with Opions versus Coptic Orthodox Church and also Protestnat versus Coptic Orthodox Church.
Initially I'd posted this there for I thought it reated to this issue. However this was REMOVED, not because it is Protestant or conflicts with the Coptic Orthodox Church but it appears that its not relevant - a subjective area I guess.
Anyway, if you fail, try, try again:
"Over the past few weeks, I’ve been engaged in a number of discussions with various people on various topics – the common style is that I ask a question in search of knowledge, answers, views (call it what you like), with a response being one of a mixture of text and personal attacks.
I do not wish to go down this avenue but history shows that I have been called a “Protestant”, “Child”, “Kid”, “To Grow UP”, ………………..
So where are we today?
Personally I have no qualms with anyone including those that administer the web site. The reality is that I have gone through persecution myself and these labeling words are nothing that I have been subjected to in the past. Whilst some people may look at the negative side of things I always look at the positive – therefore I am glad to have been labeled a “Protestant” for this shows that even strangers such as you are think of me as a Christian – so how about those that know me really well?
I LOVE all including “Protestants”. Truly I have no problem with anyone from any faith.
Equally I would not JUDGE anyone is the manner I have had in this web site – and a classic example has also been displayed to “Totter” – I believe he has quit this site.
I would like to make it clear that I have no problem with the Coptic Orthodox Church. I am a Coptic through choice and not through inheritance – whilst my parents may happen to share the same faith, I am proud to announce that my faith is through my choosing and it is only a coincidence that it is the same as that of my parents.
I have decided to share the same fait as “Totter” and leave this site. My reasons as similar to his and whilst I do not wish to repeat what he said you may find his reasons (and mine now) under his postings.
Before I go I would like to clarify the situation and also a further reason for leaving.
I never wanted to know the Coptic Orthodox Church’s view on the questions I have asked. If I wanted their view I would have asked the Coptic Orthodox Church’s themselves – and none more so that my priest who has known 4 generations in my family. I doubt that I would have gone onto the internet and asked people whom I had never meet, have no idea of their background, age, motives etc…. for clarification on the Coptic Orthodox Church.
My complements to Iqbal for taking time out to research many topics and questions. However these answers have not been to the questions I have asked but to different ones. A typical example is asking the Judas questions that happened at a moment in time and I get an answer about the Coptic Orthodox Church that happened at a later moment in time. I have just revised this topic and I find that there is no answer to the question and yet we are here talking about this topic instead.
My admiration also goes to Safaa for supporting Iqbal on many occasions.
I would like people to know that I am leaving with no animosity but purely because I find that I am no longer getting the answers to my questions and instead I find myself having to justify my love for my fellow man including “Protestants” etc… I am also happy for the record to state that I am a Christian first and a Coptic Orthodox second.
Lastly, may I ask the system administrator for the following favours:
1) To not alter the contents of this posting. I believe that they do not infringe any of your rules although you may not share their contents.
2) That you forward my e-mail address to those that ask for it. I have no problem with answering, helping or whatever request people want.
I come in peace and I shall leave in peace."
Comments
In contrast to the fact I justifiably pointed out the Proetstant attributes inherent in your argument, you are the one who chose to get personal, implicitly labelling me a Muslim without any valid basis whatsoever - that was indeed a personal attack. I admit that I could probably have found kinder and gentler ways to encourage you to mature in your approach to our discussion, but you did push me. I respect your right to have a go at me (as long as it isnt contra to the forum rules), but please, let us be honest here; wasn’t it you that referred to me as a demon/devil, simply because I told you that you cannot commune at the heterodox Church’s? Some people are simply over-sensitive by nature, and cannot help but misinterpret and misrepresent an honest and valid critique of their positions on certain matters as a personal attack. It is probably best for everyone, that such people refrain from exposing their opinions on a public forum if they cannot properly deal with people disagreeing with and criticizing their position on issues.
I believe that just like you, Mr Topper eventually had to twist and misrepresent me as an excuse to cop-out. Whereas you falsely claim that I called you a Protestant; topper falsely claimed that I labeled him a heretic. In fact I simply argued that his position on a particular issue was unorthodox according to the teachings of the Coptic Church, assuming that he would be mature enough to either a) refute me according to the Tradition of the Church or b) re-assess his position in humility; unfortunately he took it personally and blew things way out of proportion. I would ask you to sit down and reconsider this assertion of yours. You cannot insist and persist on certain positions contra to the Coptic Orthodox Church’s position, and then make a statement like that. Either reconsider your positions, or reconsider your being a Copt, because you are just not being honest with either yourself or the Church any other way. We wish you the best. However, this is a Coptic Orthodox Church website, and as such you should naturally expect that although you have the right and freedom to put forward your own personal opinion on matters, that they will be critiqued according to the Orthodox Truth. None of your threads were locked/deleted by virtue of the fact you were seeking people’s personal opinion or asserting your own; rather they were locked/deleted because you started to get personal. Please see the relevant thread in question in which I answered this: http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=2121 I have no control over your email display, that is in your hands; you may hide and expose your email through your profile as you wish.
Peace.
everyone...but this I know...
It's everyone's OWN fault that he/she decides to
leave the site....NO ONE....allow me to repeat
this....NO ONE of the administrators persecuted or
harrassed ANYONE because of his denomination....and if
anybody thinks in that way...well that's personal
opinion...because if Iqbaal was truly thinking in that
way, then HIS "bosses" woulda stopped him and so
on....or are u accusing the church of being racist
according to denomination?
Deano...if u're still there...please try to
understand...Iqbal and Safaa aren't just throwing quotes
and words around...it's a way of life they've been
living...and they loved....and thus try to give it
to everbody...in return...Iqbaal is unfortunately
harrassed...so as to speak...
The point is....WE DO NOT HATE PEOPLE OR SECTS OF
PEOPLE...WE HATE AND LOATHE AND FIGHT IDEAS CONTRARY
to the Lord's general instructions which were then
enlarged and solidified into the church we live in
today (by the Holy Spirit in the Early fathers and
by It in us)....
Iqbaal didn't come up and say to someone
here...because u are of denomination "so-and-so" then I will
disregard ur ideas...no it was evidently researched
and presented...u don't believe it...then read many
of the posts here....
Deano...look...u proclaim that u are Orthodox...ok
great...no problems wiht anybody...then SHOW
it....by evidently agreeing by and living by some basic
concepts already outlined exquisetly by
Iqbaal...when one does not do that...then evidently he can't be
Orthodox...read Iqbaal's first post again
Iqbaal...may God be with you...remember Saint
Athanasios my friend and his 4 times in long long exile,
and that was for his beloved Church and Her
doctrine which was threatened to its core
RFZ
I humbly acknowledge that, am not knowledgeable in all the teaching of the Coptic Church, but anyone who live by the Spirit of God and a faithful son/ daughter of the Church, can easily identify the wrong teaching.
Iqbal is a true Orthodoxy in all his posting, and we all benefit from his writting.
Deano, I wish you the best.