Catholic School Denying Creation Story

PK281

Hi all,
I am at school right now in my religion class and my religion teacher is telling the class that a lot of different levels of Christianity agree that the creation story is catagorized as a myth and should never be taken literally. He said that you should never go to the Bible for scientific related matters. He is currently saying that the people that take the creation story literally is why our churches are divided. He looked at us and said "...like it's just common sense. Some Christians do not believe in evolution but rather this myth, which is why we divided from them.." He also says that evolution is real and scientifically proven, while the creation story is not. He even says that even if there is physical proof regarding events from the Bible, one can never be 100% sure. I know that we for sure believe this story, but can someone please help me come up with a response to my teacher, and re strengthen my faith in the creation story?

Zoxsasi

Well, many Coptic Christians accept evolution and have no problem reconciling that with their faith.  I do not believe that evolution could happen without any intelligence/information being added to the genetic pool. 

There are some Copts also who reject evolution, and affirm to the story of the creation. Of course, when we say God created everything there is in 6 days and rested in the 7th, no one, and I mean NO ONE, literally believes this was 6 x 24 Hours for everything to have been created. 

I grappled a bit with this issue, but it doesn't really bother me anymore. We were created. That's all that matters - HOW we were created, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't. 

It is funny though that we have Christians telling us that we are nothing but dust, but then get upset if, heaven forbid, this should be ape dust. Who cares? The idea of coming from dust should, at the very least, make you humble enough to accept the somatic link between you and lower primates. 

And let's say it is not true, let's say God did create us uniquely, and used other creatures as a blueprint to create humanity. So what? The main thing is that when we had a mind, and could understand, He breathed His Life into us, and through disobedience and contract with satan with lost the gift of salvation and unity with God, and our nature returned to corruption. From corrupt to incorrupt and then back again to corruption. 

But that is a hybrid look at salvation taking best of evolution and the Bible. 

There are other models of salvation you may also like to consider, and I'll post them later when I get more battery power.

[Deleted User]

@PK281, 

Our Church believes in gradualism when it comes to evolution rather than punctuated equilibrium. Gradualism is that evolution occurs slowly over time as organisms adapt to their environment while punctuated equilibrium is that evolution occurs over a short time and happens all of a sudden. We believe Intelligent Design where God is the Creator, even if the "big bang" occurred, the cause of it happening was God and just a hypothetical atom. There are actually a lot of evidence refuting the theory of evolution - the big bang. That evidence includes transcription and translation and how complex the process of processing mRNA, etc. is. Also, the probability that those atoms meeting for the big bang to occur is really, really low. 

http://www.coptic.education/servants/servants-books/ 

Please go to this website and go under "Apologetics." It has excellent evidence about that topic specifically and its 51 pages with a reasonable font. The book also includes the probability of the aforementioned.

This was originally meant for Servant Certification for the Los Angeles Diocese, but I think that book would be excellent for your question. 

God bless!   

PK281

Okay, thank you both so much!! ( And sorry if I took up anyone's time). God bless.

mabsoota

we orthodox Christians officially (whatever some people may say) don't believe that species evolved into different species.

for more look at this new (and not very full yet) youtube channel from a group that i am part of (under the direction of 1 of the uk coptic orthodox bishops):

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY7zSQ4-GrpDgnD6fklQe_A

one of the lectures (by a lovely usa coptic teacher) is about God and science, and they are all really useful lectures.

mabsoota

i found the specific link;

there is cosmology towards the start and evolution is mentioned around at 20 mins.

basically, all the evidence about the universe points to a beginning and many scientists became believers in God (not all Christians) because if you look at all the evidence that comes from the telescopes that observe the universe, it is nearly impossible to look at the universe and guess that it came from nothing.

all the evidence points to a beginning, and if there was a beginning, there must have been energy that started the universe, as it is not possible for all the elements to form without a lot of energy starting the process.

once you realise that the universe has a beginning and a source of energy (creator), you do not need to invent the concept of species morphing into other species.

the millions of intermediate fossils that would prove evolution simply don't exist (try looking for them, they are not there!)

possibly God created the universe over a very long period of time, but we believe that He created each species deliberately, and especially He created humans as different from the other species.

it is a big topic, so if you would like to discuss more after watching the video, please let us know!

Zoxsasi

Hi Mabsoota,

How smart for the Coptic Orthodox Church to do these apologetics courses. That's good. I did in fact ask for these, and without knowing, apparently, it was top on the agenda also. 

Prof Bassilious doesn't;t really address evolution. It is the argument of evolution that things appear as if they have been designed, but are not that is the underlying cause of atheism, at least amongst atheists such as Dawkins. 

He didn't address this issue in his video, and this is the topic that I did actually ask H.E Anba Angaelos to look at.

mabsoota

thanks, zoxsasi, many people asked and God provided.

i didn't see a specific lecture on evolution yet, you have given us some work to do :)

if anyone gets there first, please share it!

Zoxsasi

Mabsoota,

You were involved in this??

Well, yes, the argument from atheism is founded in evolution. What Dawkins is proposing, as scientific fact, is that everything may appear to be designed, but it is not. 

We definately need to put our brains together. There is absolutely zero discussion with atheists unless evolution is a standard, accepted, scientific fact. And if it is a standard scientific fact, then the fact that there is no intelligence in the design is an underlying law. Now , i personally, don't subscribe to that. I don't believe an eye will develop into an eye from a microbe, but do you see where the problem is?

George's arguments were focused on answering the cosmological arguments, and cosmologically, we are strong. But as the OP has stated, the biggest contention towards there being a creator is the argument of evolution and all the package that comes with it. 

PK281

Thanks @mabsoota !!

PK281

I really appreciate all these explanations and helpful videos! I'll watch it and let you all know if there's anything I would like to clarify

mabsoota

i did not have much spare time last month, so did not look at maranhoos erof's link till now.

that page is currently down, but the information is available here:

https://coptic.education/apologetics

i recommend everyone who has time should look at this during the great fast, and read the sections that are relevant. there are good tips here on how to answer people who do not know God.

:)

mabsoota

zoxsasi, i was part of the team coordinating the event.

it was a big honour to have a small part in the conference.

but now i have a lot of homework to do.

i haven't produced anything on evolution so far, i am still finishing something on cosmology, having spent many happy hours as a child gazing at the stars!

i hope someone on this site has already written (or found) something good on evolution, then please share it here!

maybe we should have a new 'category' of apologetics, where we post it.

mabsoota

hmm, i wrote that last post a few weeks ago, it seems to have been stuck in cyberspace!

if you would like a little summary of the evidence for God in cosmology, please send me a personal message (with email address), or you can look at marenhoos_erof's page, which is very good (repeated link here: https://coptic.education/apologetics)