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Coptic Orthodox Church
I’ve heard many different ways for Peklaos ghar/Je nai nan, I’ve also heard different words as in PiPandocrator, Pensoteer, Ou pnevma emparakliton...
Why is this ?
edited April 1
The correct way to say this part of the Gregorian liturgy is the following. The priest says peklaos ghar and then says je nai nan (if it is the basil or Cyril liturgy he says efnouti efiot pipandocrator, as the basil and Cyril liturgy is addressed to the father) then the congregation replies with eleison. however in the Cyril liturgy the congregation says eleison emas first saying (otheos o patir o pandocrator) then the priest says peklaos and je nai nan.
In the Gregorian liturgy (addressed to the Son) the congregation says eleison first saying, “o theos o sotir eemon” then the priest says peklaos and je nai nan saying, “efnouti pensotir.”
However, some priests mess with this a little and sometimes say “je nai nan efnouti efiot pipandocrator, then je...efnouti pensotir, then “je...efnouti owoh nai nan”. Then the congregation will respond with the corresponding Greek response. “Eleison eemas o theos o patir o pandocrator, eleison...o theos o sotir eemon, eleison...o theos ke eleison eemas.”
I really hope I didn’t confuse you. If anyone can better explain what I just said or has any corrections, please post them below.
Strictly speaking, baklaos ghar should not be said in either St Basil or St Cyril liturgies, but people do not actually know (or care) about what
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
I guess you are asking me why, but in my fear of sounding ignorant, you may be agreeing! Please tell me what you mean by "wdym"?
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
i think that "wdym" stands for "what do you mean"
basically said "what do you mean wdym?"
This took a funny turn LOL
I just mean if it should not be said, why is it said ?
When did this start occuring ?
(Which tune should be used?)
edited April 3
In answer to your question
, I would not be able to answer all aspects, but at least I could say that the practice is quite old (not very recent).
- Why should it not be said, is exactly like what
said before, i.e. Basilian liturgy as well as the Cyrilian liturgy are addressed to God the Father, not the Son. I guess it may be better if I do not elaborate on everything as these things really get on my nerves, but suffice it to say, imagine you are saying "
" and in the middle "
,ere ne Maria
" for a couple of verses then back to "
[o `nqryi `nqyt
" etc!!!!!! That doesn't make sense, either musically, or more importantly, theologically. Indeed, someone on this very forum before told us if St. Athanasius were still alive (yes, he is, but I mean in the flesh), he would have been fuming at such meaningless practices. Of course we would not happen to turn our attention to Prince William, when we are conversing directly with the Queen, just saying "oh they are both related"!!!! Enough, because I can digress even more, but no..
- Why is it said, is because the Church became full of principles like "at the people's request" (sarcastically), or what I also label as "
ما يطلبه المؤمنون". As long as the congregation likes something, let's do it, without understanding, or indeed teaching, the reason behind it. This is the exact point why the priest changes to Gregorian fraction introduction (and sometimes before), because the tune is nice, not because it is fitting to pray to God the Logos during the Lordly celebrations for instance! How do we think the Cyrilian liturgy's proper tune was lost? How do we think the other 11 liturgies were lost? OK, I need to stop..
Oujai qen P[c
Wow, and I thought we had 58 Liturgies !
58? I need to check.. The number sticking to my mind is 14, but I will do some research on this..
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ