Secret things belong to the Lord but the revealed to us and our children

edited August 10 in Faith Issues
God told us His will for us which is to go in all the world and preach to every creature baptising them. But we know He is a fair and just God. It is not for us to say who is excepted or not because though we can be right in some or many cases we can be wrong in some cases because they may have been witnessed with power.We must treat it like everyone has to obey.

The reason I am bringing this topic is because I believe it could be all Protestants can be saved we can not say for God all those who repent will see the church is true but we can say that as a church. But the reason God does not reveal it to us is because we may treat people bad in the church intentionally or unintentionally and also we may hinder the gospel and think orthodox are not saved but we are. Because I thought to myself if jesus intentionally used parables just as He said so that hearing they may hear and not understand who don't care to do His will and love others and that if communion is similar to a parable or something to not stumble over for those who experience God in their life that could be why no Protestant has been able to explain it to me and come to terms with it because with such knowledge I may stumble others.
I ofcourse believe and teach that that is not an excuse not to join the church if you really think you could be missing communion you have to but on becoming orthodox you should hope for their salvation and consider it a possibility and work to show yourself blameless towards them and not their enemy bringing bad news. I believe also we are not perfect with our knowledge in our behaviour also with non Christians though everyone needs Christ. We can not speak for God but we need Christ. It is hard to understand but those who know God know what it is not to judge. I don't know yet but I hope. It is hard to understand that we do not judge non Christians yet we hold you need to accept Christ. Christ only knows the inward heart of others but that does not excuse that they need to accept Christ. It is hard to understand. I am not going to say Christ knows you did not really reject Him though that is possible but even in that case God wants to know would you ever or in certain case do you choose Me above all. Not everyone needs to be a saint but a saint would always choose God even if He does not fulfill their expectation of perfection as long as He is justified. It is said in psalm 51 for you do not desire sacrifice or else I would give it.
But we have to believe God is perfect or we don't love Him with all our heart. I believe we must believe God will fulfill our expectation of perfection but we should be willing to love Him anyway

Comments

  • As mina our moderator said in the below quote when I sent him a private message about an opinion of my posts before which I have to remember

    "no. The topics are not always beneficial because instead of you speaking to your father of concession and spiritual guide about all these things, you making yourself happy but posting instead. "

    I have to also share my thoughts with my father of confession he can be more accurate but he has agreed on many of my important views or his approach is non judgemental thinking others are fully Christian though believing salvation is in the church it being complicated what he is saying and that we leave judging to God while accepting them all as fully Christian it seems though he may not think fulling it is confusing. You may think I need opinion of or to have a different confession father
    I never follow a priest as my teacher only Christ if I know he is saying wrong but in other things I must submit
  • edited September 4
    As David said the saints love God above all but the reason God praised Abraham faith was not because he was willing to sacrifice his son but because he had faith that God who promised Isaac would be the heir would fulfill it even if he has to raise Isaac from the dead. You have to trust God. My dad uses that to say without trust in God we can not please Him and it seems neither be saved either
  • edited September 8
    Beware that I am not of the church according to some or many but I think I am

    http://www.stgeorgeministry.com/?p=1365

    I still teach we can not know about everyone outside. If pope Tawadros follows Abouna Peter that is also what he teaches. That is salvation is only in the church or some may be saved I doubt they would teach all may be saved that may be problematic to them or there is no one saved that is no exceptions. You guys are commanded to avoid me. Will you still give me communion ?

    I don't mind being avoided or seen as a heretic and I don't ask others to follow my way except I want communion but I may just not have it and believe God gives it to me

    If you will avoid me should I marry a Protestant ? I am not going to allow you to take marriage from me if it is from God if He want me to honor my father or do good with it. Maybe I marry one like me in the Orthodox Church

    I guess pope Tawadros just respects other Christians and he makes a common date because he wants to say we all want unity not that we are already united and he gives freedom for all to choose to believe they are Christian

    But if I am commanded to be avoided should I even go to church events ? Can I go if I want to learn ?

    I do not believe that is a Christian spirit to teach such views but it is up to you. I doubt your conscience can be fine with that but you know the truth
  • edited September 8
    Mike, it's up to you. You are a free young man who can reject the Church's teachings if you want to. But that comes with its own consequences. Also acting rebellious against certain teachings does not bode well with you, a sign of lack of maturity.

    Here you have a very knowledgeable man, Fr. Peter Farrington, with decades of experience more than you in these questions. He used to be a Protestant.

    How old are you? How much do you really know about life? Were you born into the Protestant church to really know?

    This is what maturity sounds like:

    "But Christianity does require us to say – I disagree with what you are saying, it is not what the Church teaches, but I love you and respect you, and believe that you love our Lord Jesus Christ, as I do."

    These are food for thought for you.
  • edited September 8
    I am aware of the consequences you think I will face and have accepted to be under trial from God and receive punishment if I am wrong but I think I am right so it don't concern me. I will not follow a teaching I think is hurtful and isolates many people

    I may be rebellious personally but not intentionally and not to influence others. I won't rebel other right to believe that but if I haven't accepted it for myself and you try to force me I am deemed rebellious

    Who says I do not say this ?

    "But Christianity does require us to say – I disagree with what you are saying, it is not what the Church teaches, but I love you and respect you, and believe that you love our Lord Jesus Christ, as I do."

    According to dear Father Peter and majority who have left I am not sure you can say that. People have to block and be hateful to try to force by hurting you. I don't think you can do that even if you think it will help because church has to correct a erring brother and not close line of communication with church completely
    Some cases it may help and there may be some cases it may not. But God knows your heart if you even wish other well being
    and you have to keep in mind perhaps the church has erred from pure apostolic teaching in a little matters and that was okay for many centuries but not now

    if you want me to give into just submitting to the church trusting those outside deserve to perish or something I may just do that but I encourage people outside the church not to harm themselves even more but atleast wait for a word of God though I believe serious harm will or can be done
  • edited September 8
    You priests have a duty to say to my family we will not forbid you from commmunion since I know they don't want to forbid and I agree it is wrong but you are wrong and we think you outside the church before my family (therefore neither publicly nor privately) for my sake since if I ask you personally about something you may deny it for fear of my parents
    You are the problem !
    I am not saying to do that for others children. And when no one in the family has shown interest in that

    I told a priest I know and respect that I watched one of his sermons online and wanted to talk more about it as though I don't know if I agree it is true or complete or just that I wanted to teach him more about it. He seemed to think I am questioning his wisdom given by God or church teachings and was offended out of worry for me. It is not a religious issue or doctrine but advice given to people about worldly things that concerns them from a Christian perspective.
    If I ask him he will deny it for fear of my parents because the priests know my parents teach me never to assume someone is offended
    This is small and irrelevant there is more serious examples I can't think of now when it is probable they don't want to offend parents
  • Okay Mike,

    Do you believe Jesus is God?  Then you are isolating Muslims and Jews and causing them to perish.

    Do you believe in the Trinity as the one true God?  Then you are isolating Hindus causing them to perish.

    Where do you draw the line Mike?  You seem to equate disagreement with eternal condemnation.  I think I told you many times before it is not up to us to judge the eternal fate of those around us, but we are given the responsibility of the protection of the faith handed to us by the Apostles.  That includes trust.

    You may have doubts now, and that's fine.  But your job is not to dictate what we believe, but to try to internalize the beliefs of the Church in yourself, to make sense of them in you.  But if you ultimately reject them, then that is something you will have to discuss with your parents and your priest.  But don't expect that you should continue to post thinking your opinions are "okay" for Orthodoxy.

    I love you and I care deeply about you.  I hope you understand that from me as well when I also disagree with you.

    God bless.
  • edited September 8
    Thankyou I accept that. I love you too/because you love me. As you know I believe it can make sense that unbelievers can deserve to perish but not all Christians but I see your point
  • edited September 8
    "Where do you draw the line Mike? You seem to equate disagreement with eternal condemnation. I think I told you many times before it is not up to us to judge the eternal fate of those around us, but we are given the responsibility of the protection of the faith handed to us by the Apostles. That includes trust."

    So when I say they may be saved it is different to when you say they may be saved. I think I feel I may be able to discover why since I think I kind of know. I think you are right about that
    You don't try to explain why they may be saved but that they may
  • The truth Mike is God seeks all mankind for salvation and that is why we evangelize that all may be drawn back to Him. The church is on one straight path and that we need others to be on that path also.
    We know the ruler of this world is coming and that he has nothing in God but all in inheritance: one inherits eternal condemnation and the other inherits salvation.
    Others have a different mindset like protestants because they have done away with some of the sacramental life and as we know the Holy Spirit works through those sacraments. Also that the use of conscience is different in that what is right and wrong regarding sin is approached for them in like legal terms, so righteousness is more about morals. Whereas, we look at sin like a sickness and what is right or wrong is corrected by the wisdom given to us by Christ through the Church Fathers. So when we listen to a sermon compared to protestants we listen to what we need for repentance and the correction we need for our lives, while the prorestarts listen for morally uplifting message that supports their lifestyle because they believe they have already been saved by faith.
    As for other religions, they have searched for God or God's and found some truths because they have found thruths in the soul of man but the directions do not end with the going back to the creator whom made the universe.
    I also see Muslims and Jews as living for law and in the inadequate nature of doing so as we cannot come close enough to God's perfection and that it is love that is what can truely to be perfected to come to God's perfection not law. The hadiths show up so many inadequatisies and only supports a self disciple and that disciple can be regarded as a punishment when the word discipline also means to train.
    Jesus breaking the Sabbath is so important because when He broke that law He showed that you can help people anytime and that is the love God wants and that the law restricting God's love was past. The law was like a sign that tells you what to do but that time was to pass when Jesus came because love reveals more of the mystery of God and that it superceded the law.
    In the end it is about what we inherit. Whatever you choose to believe that will be your inheritance and if it's false or misleading then that's it and has not the promise given to us through the Apostles of eternal life.
  • edited September 9
    I had a nap and thought about it more. I am glad the priests are not mean to my family at all. I am sorry to cause problem and betray my parents. Stil the priests should admit when they are offended to allow me to be corrected. I talk secretly no one knows what I am saying
  • That's ok Mike and as well we are careful not to judge as it stops the learning processes but always forgive no matter how big the problems. Then we can better understand in depth the issues at hand.
  • Thankyou dear blessed brother :)
  • According to dear Father Peter and majority who have left I am not sure you can say that. People have to block and be hateful to try to force by hurting you. I don't think you can do that even if you think it will help because church has to correct a erring brother and not close line of communication with church completely
    Some cases it may help and there may be some cases it may not.

    Correction I did not mean it is ever okay to close line of communication forever I mean there are times of silence and time for talk as I also remember Ecclesiastes 3 teaches
  • edited September 12
    I have thought about it and I have the right for my own opinion. I do not judge you who disagree if you don't judge me. I believe an orthodox must remain orthodox but some or all Protestants who have not been witnessed to with power may or will be saved but we don't know who is witnessed with power they may think they haven't but they have. God wants us not to judge. All are required to consider orthodoxy maybe even those not witnessed with power if they can do it with no worries serious like leaving an unstable person who doesn't know you are leaving to a good religion without judging them and wishing to help them.Therefore I believe we should not judge. But all who are witnessed with power and know it is required of them must. I haven't really been clear in this post and I may not be accurate perfectly or have the talent. To do what is best for salvation of Protestants and orthodox because some may need and others may not. So I will stick to orthodox belief we do not know if any can be saved outside the church because I don't have the talent therefore I leave to those who have the talent if any have. Or I hope God can reach those outside the church. I pray God sends some actually from Him.
    I hope we realise if the judgements of Old are not binding because people are not wilful heretics anymore and God endured our faults because He could before but can not now if all are required to be exclusive orthodox with a feeling of harshness
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