Servants MUST be firm in rejecting any form of the Homosexual Lifestyle and NEVER hint at tolerance.

Be holy, for I am holy.” 1 Peter 1:16, Leviticus 11:44

God, who is love, calls all people to holiness.  Christians are to bend their will to God's will, deny themselves and carry their cross, including those Christians who suffer from same-sex attraction,  not affirm our fallen natures, and not to encourage others to do so, but to struggle to holiness with God's grace.

As a "Christian" who suffers from same sex attraction, the right "choice" is to carry your cross, deny yourself, and bend your will to God's will.  The wrong "choice" is to wallow in our fallen nature and indulge in what the Bible calls an abomination and what the new testament and old testament and all the church fathers clearly condemned.

If your right hand, having no choice in being born with it, causes us to sin, what does Jesus tell us to do with it?  He tells us to cut it off.  Likewise with same sex attraction: struggle against it even if it hurts like cutting off your hand.  

The cause of homosexual attraction, whether a psychological, social, hormonal, or spiritual, or even genetic is irrelevant to the fact that God says we are sinful and that homosexual activity is wrong.  The cause does not justify indulging in the lifestyle or approving of it for the true Christian.

"You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin" (Hebrews 12:4)

“See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.” (John 5:14).

“Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:11)

We are all infected with sin- physical, emotional, and spiritual- diseases because of our fallen natures.  But in Christ, in our our baptism in Him, we are on our way to get rid of all of that because He took our nature and perfected it in Himself.

Orthodox Christianity teaches that homosexual sexual activity- indeed any such activity outside the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony between one man and one woman- is immoral.

But those afflicted with the psycho-social illness of same sex attraction who also wish to live a holy Christian life should be loved and told the truth about this lifestyle.

Those who do not want to live a holy Christian life should be loved nonetheless but a Christian who disagrees with their lifestyle need not be called a bigot or homophobic.


Comments

  • True love and true mercy involves telling the truth.  This is the Christian truth.  Christian life involves a denial of the self, carrying our cross, combat - with God's grace- against our fallenness, and struggle for holiness in constant repentance.  This is the opposite of the worldly- and satanic- view that we should accept our fallen condition, our old nature, as natural and as God's will- this is far from the Christian Truth.

    God prescribed the death penalty for Israelites in the time of their theocratic nation, along with adultery, and several other sins, teaching us that all sin and disobedience to God is leads to death.  In the New Testament, while homosexual sex is still forbidden, there is no physical death penalty for Christians, but judgement is left to God in the afterlife.  What is left is a call to repentance, love, and a struggle for holiness against our fallen natures.

  • While we all walked in the way leading to death because of sin (adultery in the heart/lust, greed, pride, idolatry, drunkenness, fornication, divorce, homosexual acts, etc.) in the New Testament we hear Jesus saying that He forgives us, and He calls us to "sin no more."  So a terrorist who goes out today and takes it upon himself to kill homosexuals on religious grounds has to ask himself why he is also not targeting adulterers, fornicators, drunkards, idolaters, divorcees who remarried etc, all of which are also sins in the New Testament and I assume also in other faiths.

    This line of thinking shows that Orthodox Christianity is called to love others and call them to repentance.

    We do not live in a Hebrew Theocratic Government.  That was a time in history when God physically displayed through the Jewish people what it means to be holy, separate from the world, and how sin leads to death.  That is also why God also gave them ritual and dietary laws, much of which does not apply to gentiles or Christians.

    While many laws were particular to the Jews under the Old Testament, this does not mean that all their morals were particular to them.  Murder is as much a sin in the old testament as it is in the New-  this is universal, as is bestiality, homosexuality, and adultery etc.  The call now on religious grounds is not physical death as a punishment, but repentance and struggle to holiness, because the same sins, without struggle and repentance will lead to eternal damnation.

    The person who suffers from same sex attraction should consider that struggle to be his/her cross.  Through that cross, prayer, repentance and effort to live according to God's will, with God's help and grace, that person offers himself/herself to God as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.  The OPPOSITE of that would be to be deceived into thinking that giving in to that fallenssness (as with any other sin) is acceptable to God.

    NEW TESTAMENT TEXTS RELATING TO THE ISSUE:

    "...women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due...

    -Romans 1:26, 27

    The Orthodox Church has, without exception, taught that this verse refers specifically to the practice of homosexual activity.  It is therefor clear that the New Testament is against that way of life.

    OLD TESTAMENT TEXTS RELATING TO THE ISSUE:

    The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. 11 The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death. They have committed perversion. Their blood shall be upon them. 13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. 14 If a man marries a woman and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you. 15 If a man mates with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and mates with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood is upon them (Leviticus 20:10-16)

    Notice the context has nothing to do with pagan worship in this context as some falsely claim.  Sexual relations with an animal is just as much an abomination as sexual relations between members of the same sex, as with adultery.  Notice how all these verses are together.  It is UNIMAGINABLY deceptive that those who claim that homosexuality is acceptable in the new testament but not in the old.  Such would have to really twist scripture to argue why that is acceptable but the other verses are applicable to all mankind.  If homosexuality is now acceptable, why aren't the other sins listed above acceptable now.  Surely it is not acceptable to have sexual relations with animals, or commit adultery, or to have relations with a with a woman and her mother.  It is clear that all these things, without exception are universally abominable acts for a Christian (and a Jew), homosexual practice is no exception.

    WHAT IS YOUR IDENTITY as a Christian?

    LGBT community?

    Its shameful when people who promote sin call themselves a community!  Imagine if people who suffer from other sins call themselves a community!  The Community of Proud Alcoholics, the Community of Pedophilia, The Community of Bestiality, the Fornicators Community or Foul Language Community. 

    People who suffer from mental illnesses get treatment they don't call themselves the proud schizophrenic community or the clinical depression community.  Rather, they form groups to support them in recovery, treatment, and betterment.  Or where there is no natural cure, to cope with the illness to live a normal as life as possible with God's help who will restore all to perfection in due time, if not in this life, then in the age to come.

    Likewise, Christians though we are sinners struggling against a myriad of our own personal sins, don't call ourselves the community of sinners.  People who suffer from same sex attraction should not call themselves a community because that gives the impression that its normal as opposed to a disordered infection belonging to the fallen nature that needs to be struggled against.

    If, for Christians who suffer from this issue, groups are formed to support each other in living a holy Christian life while struggling against this inclination, that would be a worthy name for a community, but most such "communities" today formed around this issue are there to deceive others into accepting that lifestyle or even promoting it, which is completely contrary to the Christian way of life.

    One's identity should not be one's sinful inclination.  As Christians we are called to be holy, saints, with an identity of Children of God, struggling against our sins, disorders, and fallen nature.  It is therefor inappropriate to define ourselves by our fallenness or our sexuality.  A person who suffers from same-sex attraction should not see his/her identity as "a gay person".  A true Christian is a child of God, a servant of God, called to be holy, called to be a saint, doing the the will of God- as clearly stated in scripture- participating in the Sacraments, the life of the Church, leading a life of repentance, carrying a cross, self-denial, and  being guided by the Holy Spirit and his/her Father of Confession.   That is his/her identity- just like everyone else who struggles against any other sin.


  • "Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God" (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

    The reference to homosexuals above, which is what the Orthodox Church has correctly understood the root word to mean, does not refer to those with the inclination because of fallen nature, but to those who actively engage in, promote, approve, accept such actions and a lifestyle.  Likewise for all the other sins.

    The words above greatly offend the world.  Immediately Christians who believe the above are called bigots and hate-filled persons.  They do this because the the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one (1 John 5:19) and because some "exchanged the truth of God for the lie" (Romans 1:25).

    Our Lord Jesus, though , is clear, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. ( John 10:27)

    "A time will come when the whole world will go crazy. And to anyone who is not crazy they will say: 'You are crazy, for you are not like us.'" - St. Anthony the Great

    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; (Isaiah 5:20).

    The opposite of living a homosexual lifestyle is not to live a straight lifestyle, the opposite of living a homosexual lifestyle is to be holy, as with struggling against any other sinful inclination.

    Some people are taking the kind and respectful words of Orthodox Christians as though it were a wink to express implicit tolerance of the homosexual lifestyle as compatible with Christianity.  This must stop and the message must be made very clear that Orthodoxy has never been, and never will be compatible with a homosexual lifestyle, regardless of the cause of the same sex attraction, even if it were to be proven genetic.  

    Clergy and servants MUST be clear that if someone supports, approves of, or tolerates the practice of homosexuality, and continues to do so or to believe so despite admonitions that person must immediately be prevented from communion and teaching in the Church and a decision needs to be made regarding whether to continue a member of the Orthodox Church.

    A person who suffers from same sex attraction who sees the burden as a temptation and struggles against it, condemning the homosexual lifestyle- that person should be seen as fully Orthodox and living a saintly life in that regard, as with any other person struggling with God's grace against any other sin.

    Pastoral care for persons afflicted with this problem must NEVER involve hinting that God's mercy somehow deems the practice of homosexual relationships of any kind as acceptable to the Orthodox faith.

    Whatever the solution is, it is NEVER going to be tolerance of homosexual lifestyle within Orthodoxy.  That would be the beginning of the Falling Away.

    Lord Jesus, have mercy on me a sinner, and save me.

  • I wholeheartedly agree with you however it have also to be clear that the Church is "hospital" as St John Chrysostom calls it! There is a fine line between intolerance for sin and tolerance for sinners! 

    Actually there is no biblical word for "tolerance" or "amnesty" - the biblical statute is for "love" and, specifically, "Agape love". 

    The Blood or our Lord Jesus Christ washes ALL SINS (no ifs ands or buts about it). Any repentant person should be accepted! And repentance and acceptance is not a one time event in life. We ALL struggle with many sins; myself in the front of the line!

    The only UNFORGIVABLE SIN is PRIDE (carried to the end with no repentance!) "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:5). St John Climacus (John of the Ladder) also says "An angel fell from Heaven without any other passion except pride, and so we may ask whether it is possible to ascend to Heaven by humility alone, without any other of the virtues.” (The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Step 23, Section 12).

    To be clear: fornication of any sort is SINFUL. The Bible is clear on that however The Church should be open to all repenting faithful with no limit (or "performance metric") in their struggle against lust or any other sin. 




  • First of all, Christ would be tolerant, as he was tolerant to prostitute in the bible.

    Agree with basemwilliam.

    This kind of homophobia comes straight out of Egyptian culture and should be curbed...


  • Being a Christian in America today means you can't speak your mind :(
  • We ( the church ) are called by Christ and the church comes when it is called and yes it is a hospital where sin is the sickness. What that means is we are all called to be healed and to heal by means of repentance. It is the sacrament of repentance and confession and if you are in the church then you must adhere to the sacrament like anyone else in the church for the forgiveness of sin.
    If we put Jesus in front of us and to represent His image as our life in Him then it would not be an accepted practice or image of one being homosexual and representing Christ.
  • @Joshuaa, by your example, should I instead imagine Jesus as being heterosexual? That's an awfully bad example, don't you think? I don't like imagining Jesus's sexuality, and hetero/homosexual is about sexual preference. As far as you know, Jesus is divine.

    Also, images conjure different thoughts for everyone; that's why words are much more effective in creating a shared understanding.

    @Justice; PC(Political Correctness.) So if you think you might offend someone (self awareness) then don't say it! Coptic Orthodox people tend to be totally non-PC IMO going to many churches on both coasts of the USA. But don't expect 0 backlash if you start offending people by sharing unpopular opinions. After all, this is the orthodox church in every aspect of the word.
  • No Voltaire. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clrarer. It is that Jesus is the head so is the leader so in our following we are ambassadors for Him and in Him. I wasn't thinking about sexual orientation but the remission of sin in which even heterosexuals have. Repentance is necessary for the remission of sin in which every the sin is practiced and it is God whom helps us (guides us), on the pure and perfect way to Him. If we can't repent, then there is no transformation in the soul and the sickness in sin cannot be healed and there is no faith in allowing God to bring or show the way back to Him.
  • "First of all, Christ would be tolerant, as he was tolerant to prostitute in the bible.

    Agree with basemwilliam.

    This kind of homophobia comes straight out of Egyptian culture and should be curbed..."
    The prostitute (and there were many) was NOT tolerated as you may be thinking. As soon as Christ entered their lives, they stopped being prostitutes. If there is no repentance, there is no salvation. Do you think if the prostitute insisted on sinning, she would be vindicated or be tolerated from past or future sins just because Christ visited her? No. Christ tells the paralyzed man, "Sin no more or something worse will come on you". This is not a cultural proclamation, but a Christian truth.

    Homophobia is a post-modern, leftist, fallacy, conjured to justify sin. Homosexuality is a sin and a homosexual who insists he/she is not doing anything wrong and does not repent, is in danger of losing his/her soul. Period. 

    What exactly does homophobia mean? Heterosexuals are afraid they lose some sort of majority moral conviction? That would be moralophobia. Heterosexuals are afraid homosexuals will take over the world? That is villianophobia and we don't care what happens in the world because the world will pass away but God's words will not pass away. What exactly does homophobia mean? What exactly is homophobia? It is the thing Isaiah 5:20 warns against. 
  • edited May 31
    A homosexual is a human who helplessly identifies as something - which is contrary to Gods will and original design, but not one of us is ever helpless or unchangable. We need only to ask our Father and our Lord, our creator to save us and change us, to lovingly free us from what ever we are lost by. He who has made us and he who wants us to be different, he can surly change us, change us in so many ways and so much more than we could ever understand.

    Please let us lovingly help anyone caught in this deception to pray and to trust in Gods power and be changed, please let us draw them to his truth and not drive them away

  • `<rictoc Anecty ouoh Afsenaf
    The main issue we need to consider, whether in the USA or anywhere is this: is whatever we are doing beneficial to us, to God's name on Earth, and to our brothers and sisters who struggle? I agree, homosexuality is a sin, but driving them away and/or shaming them or insulting them is definitely not love. I agree with @Remnkemi that there needs to be repentance, but we cannot be forceful nor discriminatory.

    As to the question of "what is homophobia," or rather, "what is a homophobic," it's become an overused term; it is supposed to mean someone who discriminates/outright hates homosexuals. Christians should never be homophobic. We cannot deny them a job due to their sin, nor can we say that they are less human. We also, however, cannot be out in the leftist protests asking for things we believe in. If those laws or regulations get passed, so be it; it shouldn't have any massive effect in our lives who can date or marry who legally. We can't be to the far right, saying that all homosexuals should die or anything along the lines of forcing "conversion" or go to jail simply for being homosexual, either; that sort of speech and rhetoric is evil and spiteful and proud. Recently there was an incident of two men being stabbed because a third man insulted a Muslim woman's hijab; we cannot imitate him in any way and be violent or spiteful. Personally, I think that if it isn't directly affecting us in a very serious way that we can't bear with, we should leave it alone and not take sides. It becomes a very nasty debate of politics over religion and the Bible.
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