Women Priests and Deacons

LordHaveMercy

I know the Church disapproves of women clergy, yet many people in my school see it as equality. They hold the following verses as their argument,

"11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." 1 Timothy 2:12

"16 ...I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” Genesis 3:16

Please help me to reply to them.

servant33

Hehe, there have been some lengthy debates on this topic on forums:

http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,132.0.html
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,10288.0.html
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,11375.0.html
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,10503.msg127468.html

Bishop Youssef's Answer:
http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?qid=397&catid=406

Perhaps someone can post a TL;DR

Servos

[quote author=LordHaveMercy link=topic=14004.msg161859#msg161859 date=1355179678]
They hold the following verses as their argument,


One more argument from them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKpePfkInXM&feature=plcp
:P

LordHaveMercy

Thanks everyone so much for the websites.

Also, why aren't women allowed in the altar?

qawe

[quote author=LordHaveMercy link=topic=14004.msg161866#msg161866 date=1355183472]
Thanks everyone so much for the websites.

Also, why aren't women allowed in the altar?


Neither women nor men are allowed in the altar.  Only clergy are allowed in the altar (either from the rank chanter, reader or sub-deacon and up - I can't remember).

mark.naguib7

[quote author=qawe link=topic=14004.msg161867#msg161867 date=1355183581]
[quote author=LordHaveMercy link=topic=14004.msg161866#msg161866 date=1355183472]
Thanks everyone so much for the websites.

Also, why aren't women allowed in the altar?


Neither women nor men are allowed in the altar.  Only clergy are allowed in the altar (either from the rank chanter, reader or sub-deacon and up - I can't remember).


It is sub-deacon and up as far as I know, but since most of the churches do not have any sub-deacons or deacons they allow chanters and readers to enter the altar.

qawe

.

mark.naguib7

[quote author=qawe link=topic=14004.msg161869#msg161869 date=1355186634]
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=14004.msg161868#msg161868 date=1355183730]
[quote author=qawe link=topic=14004.msg161867#msg161867 date=1355183581]
[quote author=LordHaveMercy link=topic=14004.msg161866#msg161866 date=1355183472]
Thanks everyone so much for the websites.

Also, why aren't women allowed in the altar?


Neither women nor men are allowed in the altar.  Only clergy are allowed in the altar (either from the rank chanter, reader or sub-deacon and up - I can't remember).


It is sub-deacon and up as far as I know, but since most of the churches do not have any sub-deacons or deacons they allow chanters and readers to enter the altar.


More than that... some churches allow (force) unordained men to enter the altar for Holy Communion.  And I know of at least one church that forces unordained men to exit the altar after communion by THE ROYAL DOOR (normally reserved for priest and full deacon only)!


What is more atrocious, at least in my opinion, is the 6 years-old "chanters" who can barley say Our Father. But when any 6 years-old can become a "deacon," wear the nice "dresses", and go in and out of the altar as they wish, you cannot really expect any respect for the altar...

We need a reform, and the only way for it to work is if it came from higher authorities.

guy

Hopefully Pope Tawardros will ordain for us women priestes and women bishoppesses

minatasgeel

[quote author=guy link=topic=14004.msg161883#msg161883 date=1355208396]
Hopefully Pope Tawardros will ordain for us women priestes and women bishoppesses

hehe....funny

guy

Im not trying to be funny

ReturnOrthodoxy

:o We kinda hoped you would be trying to be funny.

Pope Tawadros has no right to change the commandment of the church for centuries. Thankfully, I don't think he wants to.

RO

guy

OOh i didn't know this, thanks man