[quote author=anba bola link=topic=10599.msg129341#msg129341 date=1296614159] I don't think its true. My mom told me the same story except that instead St. Mary said to anoint the doors of Christians with oil and she'd take care of the rest. She also told me that its circulating via text message in Egypt (This is the version she was told when calling Egypt). It seems like if St. Mary appeared to Abouna Fanous, we'd have him say something or the Pope say something or someone officially say something, but as of right now I'd say don't pay much attention to it. If it is true, I certainly wouldn't rely on forwards or text messages for the information about what happened.
How about we stand beside those fighting for freedom in egypt instead of asking which saint appeared to which priest and whether a prophecy happened or not. lets not live in fantasy land and pay ation to reality. reality is the government is corrupt and a few brave men decided to change it. the government did not like this and allowed prisoners to escape to cause riots and they disconnected phones and internet and they continue to lie and say that the government is great on egyptian tv. coptic people, please wake up from ur dreams. ir's time to take action for once in our lives and do what our holy fathers did, that is be brave. be brave and say no to corruption say no to a dictator who ruled over egypt for 30 years. do not be afraid. i know some if not all are afraid that islamic radicals will take over the government. i can assure u that they will not because very well educated people ignited the revolution and they will not allow egypt to go backwards. even if the radicals take over, they will have more mercy on us than mubarak....please remember our martyrs in alexandria, nag3 hamadi and 3omranya....the common denominator is the government's correlation with all of them. besides, y r u afraid. our church is 2000 years old and in our history we have seen worse....what i'm saying is that we must take action. we always complain that we have no rights in egypt. now is the time. go and demand your right for a change. this is the chance to remake the constitution. if we do not take action now we will have no one to blame but ourselves if we continue to be second class citizens. salam
Abouna Fanous is a very holy monk that lives in the monastery of Anba Bola. I've heard it been said that when he prays his fingers light up and so he wears socks on his hands to prevent people from thinking he is a saint. See here for more: http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,6433.0.html
I'd say don't believe it. If its true we'll get something even close to official, but anyone can create a text message saying what they want and spread it.
I can't find a recording of the futuristic prophecy, but here's abouna morcos talking about how prophecies that talk about the first coming of christ, at the same time, also talk about events that come at the end of time, and the repetition of prophecies.
sorry, it's in arabic. things take forever to be translated to english, and if thats what you're going to wait for, well...
anyway, he explains this idea within the first 7 min of this lecture. he's got an entire series that explains this idea repetitively throughout, but I tried to find a quick easy one, otherwise u probably won't listen to it.
Locally many Christians of all churches made the sign of the Cross with holy oil on their front doors. All the good people of Egypt, that's the big majority of us the 85 millions Egyptians, stood together to fight and defend our streets and homes for many days and nights. With the grace of God Egypt is now gradually recovering from the traitors' evil actions against us. Plus you will find both pro and anti president demonstrations, the big majority are pro not anti which is especially evident after he made a very good statement of commitment to his people.
the government did not like this and allowed prisoners to escape to cause riots and they disconnected phones and internet and they continue to lie and say that the government is great on egyptian tv. coptic people, please wake up from ur dreams.
That's a total misleading post, it's a lie. The president was never a dictator though corruption was in many ministries alright. The corrupt government is now dissolved and another one is due to replace it. We are all aware here in Egypt that at least the minister of internal affairs and its team were involved in a high treason conspiracy, acting in cooperation with the muslim brotherhood - who are in fact refused by the big majority of both Christians and Muslims of Egypt as we've seen ourselves lately during these last days of trouble - and with local and nearby terrorist groups like from Gaza strip, linked to international terror.
We remember and take wisdom from what our Lord said:
Mark 3:24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Beware there are a lot of circulating lies and rumors, also beware of the BBC news and others like al-Jazeera's, they are highly misleading.
The internet is now fully restored, local and international wired communications were working all the time. The reason for blocking mobile networks and the internet was a strategic one, i.e. to block easy communications between different terrorist groups while the army was being deployed.
Egyptians have been set against Egyptians for what? 2000 years?
Who are the workers in fine flax and why are they ashamed now?
What about every other civil disruption in Egypt over the millenia, many of which have been much, much worse than now.
I don't see that anything prophetically significant is happening in Egypt. You have had enough of bad government that is all. It has happened in Europe in a great many countries over the last 20 or 30 years.
Yes Isaiah 19 is already fulfilled. You have to read Isaiah 19 in context with 20 (as well as a few preceding chapters).
With all the protesting going on in Egypt, I'm now starting to see christians say that this is also a fulfillment of Bible Prophecy, particularly Isaiah 19. This is not true. Isaiah 19-20 were fulfilled over 2,500 years ago! Isaiah walked around naked for 3 years as a sign or parable to the people of Egypt and Cush (OF THAT TIME PERIOD) about what would happen to them.
Isaiah 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
To get an understanding of Isaiah 19, you have to read Isaiah 20. I will be using the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary to give you some history about what Isaiah 19 and 20 were talking about.
Isaiah 20:1 In the year that the commander in chief, who was sent by Sargon the king of Assyria, came to Ashdod and fought against it and captured it. (Please read the whole chapter of 19 and 20)
Isa 20:1-6. Continuation of the Subject of the Nineteenth Chapter, BUT AT A Later Date. Captivity of Egypt and Ethiopia.
In the reign of Sargon (722-715 B.C.), the successor of Shalmaneser, an Assyrian invasion of Egypt took place. Its success is here foretold, and hence a party among the Jews is warned of the folly of their "expectation" of aid from Egypt or Ethiopia. At a later period (Isa 18:1-7), when Tirhakah of Ethiopia was their ally, the Ethiopians are treated as friends, to whom God announces the overthrow of the common Assyrian foe, Sennacherib. Egypt and Ethiopia in this chapter (Isa 20:3-4) are represented as allied together, the result no doubt of fear of the common foe; previously they had been at strife, and the Ethiopian king had, just before Sethos usurpation, withdrawn from occupation of part of Lower Egypt. Hence, "Egypt" is mentioned alone in Isa. 19:1-25, which refers to a somewhat earlier stage of the same event: a delicate mark of truth.
Sargon seems to have been the king who finished the capture of Samaria which Shalmaneser began; the alliance of Hoshea with So or Sabacho II of Ethiopia, and his refusal to pay the usual tribute, provoked Shalmaneser to the invasion. On clay cylindrical seals found in Sennacherib's palace at Koyunjik, the name of Sabacho is deciphered; the two seals are thought, from the inscriptions, to have been attached to the treaty of peace between Egypt and Assyria, which resulted from the invasion of Egypt by Sargon, described in this chapter; 2Ki 18:10 curiously confirms the view derived from Assyrian inscriptions, that though Shalmaneser began, Sargon finished the conquest of Samaria; "they took it" (compare 2Ki 17:4-6).
In Sargon's palace at Khorsabad, inscriptions state that 27,280 Israelites were led captive by the founder of the palace. While Shalmaneser was engaged in the siege of Samaria, Sargon probably usurped the supreme power and destroyed him; the siege began in 723 B.C., and ended in 721 B.C., the first year of Sargon's reign. Hence arises the paucity of inscriptions of the two predecessors of Sargon, Tiglath-pileser and Shalmaneser; the usurper destroyed them, just as Tiglath-pileser destroyed those of Pul (Sardanapalus), the last of the old line of Ninus; the names of his father and grandfather, which have been deciphered in the palace of his son Sennacherib, do not appear in the list of Assyrian kings, which confirms the view that he was a satrap who usurped the throne. He was so able a general that Hezekiah made no attempt to shake off the tribute until the reign of Sennacherib; hence Judah was not invaded now as the lands of the Philistines and Egypt were. After conquering Israel he sent his general, Tartan, to attack the Philistine cities, "Ashdod," and preliminary to his invasion of Egypt and Ethiopia; for the line of march to Egypt lay along the southwest coast of Palestine. The inscriptions confirm the prophecy; they tell us he received tribute from a Pharaoh of "Egypt"; besides destroying in part the Ethiopian "No-ammon," or Thebes (Na 3 : 8 ) also that he warred with the kings of "Ashdod," Gaza, &c., in harmony with Isaiah here; a memorial tablet of him is found in Cyprus also, showing that he extended his arms to that island. His reign was six or seven years in duration, 722-715 B.C. [G. V. Smith].
1. Tartan - probably the same general as was sent by Sennacherib against Hezekiah (2Ki 18:17). Gesenius takes "Tartan" as a title.
2. Ashdod - called by the Greeks Azotus (Ac 8:40); on the Mediterranean, one of the "five" cities of the Philistines. The taking of it was a necessary preliminary to the invasion of Egypt, to which it was the key in that quarter, the Philistines being allies of Egypt. So strongly did the Assyrians fortify it that it stood a twenty-nine years' siege, when it was retaken by the Egyptian Psammetichus.
3. Sent - Sargon himself remained behind engaged with the Phonician cities, or else led the main force more directly into Egypt out of Judah [G. V. Smith].
CHAPTER 18 (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary includes references to Isaiah 17 in their synopsis of chapter 18)
Isa 18:1-7.
Isaiah announces the overthrow of Sennacherib's hosts and desires the Ethiopian ambassadors, now in Jerusalem, to bring word of it to their own nation; and he calls on the whole world to witness the event (Isa 18:3). As Isa 17:12-14 announced the presence of the foe, so Isa 18:1-7 foretells his overthrow.
1. Woe-The heading in English Version, "God will destroy the Ethiopians," is a mistake arising from the wrong rendering "Woe," whereas the Hebrew does not express a threat, but is an appeal calling attention (Isa 55:1; Zec 2:6): "Ho." He is not speaking against but to the Ethiopians, calling on them to hear his prophetical announcement as to the destruction of their enemies.
shadowing with wings-rather, "land of the winged bark"; that is, "barks with wing-like sails, answering to vessels of bulrushes" in Isa 18:2; the word "rivers," in the parallelism, also favors it; so the Septuagint and Chaldee [Ewald]. "Land of the clanging sound of wings," that is, armies, as in Isa 8:8; the rendering "bark," or "ship," is rather dubious [Maurer]. The armies referred to are those of Tirhakah, advancing to meet the Assyrians (Isa 37:9). In English Version, "shadowing" means protecting-stretching out its wings to defend a feeble people, namely, the Hebrews [Vitringa]. The Hebrew for "wings" is the same as for the idol Cneph, which was represented in temple sculptures with wings (Ps 91:4).
beyond-Meroe, the island between the "rivers" Nile and Astaboras is meant, famed for its commerce, and perhaps the seat of the Ethiopian government, hence addressed here as representing the whole empire: remains of temples are still found, and the name of "Tirhakah" in the inscriptions. This island region was probably the chief part of Queen Candace's kingdom (Ac 8:27). For "beyond" others translate less literally "which borderest on."
Ethiopia-literally, "Cush." Horsley is probably right that the ultimate and fullest reference of the prophecy is to the restoration of the Jews in the Holy Land through the instrumentality of some distant people skilled in navigation (Isa 18:2; Isa 60:9, 10; Ps 45:15; 68:31; Zep 3:10). Phonician voyagers coasting along would speak of all Western remote lands as "beyond" the Nile's mouths. "Cush," too, has a wide sense, being applied not only to Ethiopia, but Arabia-Deserta and Felix, and along the Persian Gulf, as far as the Tigris (Ge 2:13).
Comments
I don't think its true. My mom told me the same story except that instead St. Mary said to anoint the doors of Christians with oil and she'd take care of the rest. She also told me that its circulating via text message in Egypt (This is the version she was told when calling Egypt). It seems like if St. Mary appeared to Abouna Fanous, we'd have him say something or the Pope say something or someone officially say something, but as of right now I'd say don't pay much attention to it. If it is true, I certainly wouldn't rely on forwards or text messages for the information about what happened.
So my advice, in short, is to disregard it.
In my opinion it wont hurt to just read it
I'd say don't believe it. If its true we'll get something even close to official, but anyone can create a text message saying what they want and spread it.
[quote author=epiphania link=topic=10599.msg129328#msg129328 date=1296607781]
umm...today assyria is syria.
Actually...the descendants of the Assyrians are scattered all over the place...mainly, they lived in the place where Iraq is.
no...Iraq is babylon...
A Patristic Commentary on The Book of Isaiah by Fr. Tadros Y. Malaty
chapter 19 starts on page 217
http://www.aina.org/brief.html
anyway, back to the point:
I can't find a recording of the futuristic prophecy, but here's abouna morcos talking about how prophecies that talk about the first coming of christ, at the same time, also talk about events that come at the end of time, and the repetition of prophecies.
sorry, it's in arabic. things take forever to be translated to english, and if thats what you're going to wait for, well...
anyway, he explains this idea within the first 7 min of this lecture. he's got an entire series that explains this idea repetitively throughout, but I tried to find a quick easy one, otherwise u probably won't listen to it.
http://www.fathermarkos.com/tafsir.htm
go down to - سفــر زكريـا (18 عظة) 7
its #246
I tried to get a direct link, but I couldn't :(
[quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=10599.msg129334#msg129334 date=1296610655]
[quote author=epiphania link=topic=10599.msg129328#msg129328 date=1296607781]
umm...today assyria is syria.
Actually...the descendants of the Assyrians are scattered all over the place...mainly, they lived in the place where Iraq is.
no...Iraq is babylon...
look at the bottom of the link you gave me.
We remember and take wisdom from what our Lord said:
Mark 3:24
If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Beware there are a lot of circulating lies and rumors, also beware of the BBC news and others like al-Jazeera's, they are highly misleading.
The internet is now fully restored, local and international wired communications were working all the time. The reason for blocking mobile networks and the internet was a strategic one, i.e. to block easy communications between different terrorist groups while the army was being deployed.
GBU
Egyptians have been set against Egyptians for what? 2000 years?
Who are the workers in fine flax and why are they ashamed now?
What about every other civil disruption in Egypt over the millenia, many of which have been much, much worse than now.
I don't see that anything prophetically significant is happening in Egypt. You have had enough of bad government that is all. It has happened in Europe in a great many countries over the last 20 or 30 years.
Father Peter
GBU
With all the protesting going on in Egypt, I'm now starting to see christians say that this is also a fulfillment of Bible Prophecy, particularly Isaiah 19. This is not true. Isaiah 19-20 were fulfilled over 2,500 years ago! Isaiah walked around naked for 3 years as a sign or parable to the people of Egypt and Cush (OF THAT TIME PERIOD) about what would happen to them.
Isaiah 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
To get an understanding of Isaiah 19, you have to read Isaiah 20. I will be using the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary to give you some history about what Isaiah 19 and 20 were talking about.
Isaiah 20:1 In the year that the commander in chief, who was sent by Sargon the king of Assyria, came to Ashdod and fought against it and captured it. (Please read the whole chapter of 19 and 20)
Isa 20:1-6. Continuation of the Subject of the Nineteenth Chapter, BUT AT A Later Date. Captivity of Egypt and Ethiopia.
In the reign of Sargon (722-715 B.C.), the successor of Shalmaneser, an Assyrian invasion of Egypt took place. Its success is here foretold, and hence a party among the Jews is warned of the folly of their "expectation" of aid from Egypt or Ethiopia. At a later period (Isa 18:1-7), when Tirhakah of Ethiopia was their ally, the Ethiopians are treated as friends, to whom God announces the overthrow of the common Assyrian foe, Sennacherib. Egypt and Ethiopia in this chapter (Isa 20:3-4) are represented as allied together, the result no doubt of fear of the common foe; previously they had been at strife, and the Ethiopian king had, just before Sethos usurpation, withdrawn from occupation of part of Lower Egypt. Hence, "Egypt" is mentioned alone in Isa. 19:1-25, which refers to a somewhat earlier stage of the same event: a delicate mark of truth.
Sargon seems to have been the king who finished the capture of Samaria which Shalmaneser began; the alliance of Hoshea with So or Sabacho II of Ethiopia, and his refusal to pay the usual tribute, provoked Shalmaneser to the invasion. On clay cylindrical seals found in Sennacherib's palace at Koyunjik, the name of Sabacho is deciphered; the two seals are thought, from the inscriptions, to have been attached to the treaty of peace between Egypt and Assyria, which resulted from the invasion of Egypt by Sargon, described in this chapter; 2Ki 18:10 curiously confirms the view derived from Assyrian inscriptions, that though Shalmaneser began, Sargon finished the conquest of Samaria; "they took it" (compare 2Ki 17:4-6).
In Sargon's palace at Khorsabad, inscriptions state that 27,280 Israelites were led captive by the founder of the palace. While Shalmaneser was engaged in the siege of Samaria, Sargon probably usurped the supreme power and destroyed him; the siege began in 723 B.C., and ended in 721 B.C., the first year of Sargon's reign. Hence arises the paucity of inscriptions of the two predecessors of Sargon, Tiglath-pileser and Shalmaneser; the usurper destroyed them, just as Tiglath-pileser destroyed those of Pul (Sardanapalus), the last of the old line of Ninus; the names of his father and grandfather, which have been deciphered in the palace of his son Sennacherib, do not appear in the list of Assyrian kings, which confirms the view that he was a satrap who usurped the throne. He was so able a general that Hezekiah made no attempt to shake off the tribute until the reign of Sennacherib; hence Judah was not invaded now as the lands of the Philistines and Egypt were. After conquering Israel he sent his general, Tartan, to attack the Philistine cities, "Ashdod," and preliminary to his invasion of Egypt and Ethiopia; for the line of march to Egypt lay along the southwest coast of Palestine. The inscriptions confirm the prophecy; they tell us he received tribute from a Pharaoh of "Egypt"; besides destroying in part the Ethiopian "No-ammon," or Thebes (Na 3 : 8 ) also that he warred with the kings of "Ashdod," Gaza, &c., in harmony with Isaiah here; a memorial tablet of him is found in Cyprus also, showing that he extended his arms to that island. His reign was six or seven years in duration, 722-715 B.C. [G. V. Smith].
1. Tartan - probably the same general as was sent by Sennacherib against Hezekiah (2Ki 18:17). Gesenius takes "Tartan" as a title.
2. Ashdod - called by the Greeks Azotus (Ac 8:40); on the Mediterranean, one of the "five" cities of the Philistines. The taking of it was a necessary preliminary to the invasion of Egypt, to which it was the key in that quarter, the Philistines being allies of Egypt. So strongly did the Assyrians fortify it that it stood a twenty-nine years' siege, when it was retaken by the Egyptian Psammetichus.
3. Sent - Sargon himself remained behind engaged with the Phonician cities, or else led the main force more directly into Egypt out of Judah [G. V. Smith].
CHAPTER 18 (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary includes references to Isaiah 17 in their synopsis of chapter 18)
Isa 18:1-7.
Isaiah announces the overthrow of Sennacherib's hosts and desires the Ethiopian ambassadors, now in Jerusalem, to bring word of it to their own nation; and he calls on the whole world to witness the event (Isa 18:3). As Isa 17:12-14 announced the presence of the foe, so Isa 18:1-7 foretells his overthrow.
1. Woe-The heading in English Version, "God will destroy the Ethiopians," is a mistake arising from the wrong rendering "Woe," whereas the Hebrew does not express a threat, but is an appeal calling attention (Isa 55:1; Zec 2:6): "Ho." He is not speaking against but to the Ethiopians, calling on them to hear his prophetical announcement as to the destruction of their enemies.
shadowing with wings-rather, "land of the winged bark"; that is, "barks with wing-like sails, answering to vessels of bulrushes" in Isa 18:2; the word "rivers," in the parallelism, also favors it; so the Septuagint and Chaldee [Ewald]. "Land of the clanging sound of wings," that is, armies, as in Isa 8:8; the rendering "bark," or "ship," is rather dubious [Maurer]. The armies referred to are those of Tirhakah, advancing to meet the Assyrians (Isa 37:9). In English Version, "shadowing" means protecting-stretching out its wings to defend a feeble people, namely, the Hebrews [Vitringa]. The Hebrew for "wings" is the same as for the idol Cneph, which was represented in temple sculptures with wings (Ps 91:4).
beyond-Meroe, the island between the "rivers" Nile and Astaboras is meant, famed for its commerce, and perhaps the seat of the Ethiopian government, hence addressed here as representing the whole empire: remains of temples are still found, and the name of "Tirhakah" in the inscriptions. This island region was probably the chief part of Queen Candace's kingdom (Ac 8:27). For "beyond" others translate less literally "which borderest on."
Ethiopia-literally, "Cush." Horsley is probably right that the ultimate and fullest reference of the prophecy is to the restoration of the Jews in the Holy Land through the instrumentality of some distant people skilled in navigation (Isa 18:2; Isa 60:9, 10; Ps 45:15; 68:31; Zep 3:10). Phonician voyagers coasting along would speak of all Western remote lands as "beyond" the Nile's mouths. "Cush," too, has a wide sense, being applied not only to Ethiopia, but Arabia-Deserta and Felix, and along the Persian Gulf, as far as the Tigris (Ge 2:13).