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Coptic Orthodox Church
Are these the biblical giants?
John_S2000, The point here you missed is critical,I am not here to impose my opinion on anyone but the Evidences that we the proponents for the inspiration of the Book of Enoch brought in the forum are not still refuted.
John, I don’t why Evidence 5 boggled you,It is very simple,if you read the whole context 2 Peter 2:4-7," For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell(Tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person,
The context is very clear and The question I should have the right to ask is which angels is St. Peter talking about?The angels that sinned before the creation of man or the angels that sinned during the era of the flood,if St. Peter is referring to the angels that fell before creation,why would he make a leap and go directly talking about saving Noah,instead of the creation of Adam and the logical conclusion from these verse will be there are angels that sinned during the era of the flood and I think there is no way getting around this verse too.
I don't read it like you at all I am afraid.
It seems to me that there is a clear parallelism between the angelic world which was not spared when it sinned, and then the post-Fall human world which was not spared when it fell utterly into corruption.
It seems to me that this parallelism says nothing at all about angels falling after the Fall of Adam and Eve, and rather is drawing attention to the fact that God spared neither angels nor men when they sinned.
I do not believe there were other angels who sinned after the Fall, that does not require you to adopt my opinion at all. But I am not convinced that this passage supports your opinion.
Father Peter,even though you made a good point on the fall of angels on interpretation,I disagree with you when you said, “this parallelism says nothing at all about angels falling after the Fall of Adam and Eve”, let me elaborate my point of view:
There is unequivocal parallelism made by St.Peter in 2 Peter 2:4-7 about two events.
There were two major destructions made by God in the History of our world,one is by water and the other by fire mentioned in the verse.
From the two major destruction,St. Peter mentioned the rescue of St.Noah and on the second event St.Lot .
The crucial parallelism here is one of the major reasons for the first destruction is angels having sexual relationship with humans (Genesis 6) and on the second one the reverse happened humans(Sodomites) wanted to have sexual relationship with Angels(Genesis 19:4-5).
In my opinion,The parallelism should not be ignored as coincidence and not only this 2 peter 2:4 is found in the book of enoch in detail,Enoch 10:11-2 R H Charles Version or Enoch 3:14-5 Ethiopic version, " Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates(The angels mentioned in 2 peter 2:4) who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them .....bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated"
Thanks to the finding of the dead sea scrolls,the Book of Enoch is older than 2 Peter and again the other interesting part on the verse in Enoch 10:11-2 R H Charles Version or Enoch 3:14-5 Ethiopic version, " Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so ...bind them fast for SEVENTY generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement.” is that there are exactly 77 generations from Adam to Jesus Christ(Luke 3) and there are exactly 7 generations from St. Adam to St. Enoch(Genesis 10) and 77-7=70, which leads to 70 generations from Enoch’s time to the Messiah,so St. Enoch was staggeringly accurate when He predicted to bind the angels upto 70 generations.
I appreciate that is your opinion, but I disagree.
Since we are only dealing with opinions this seems acceptable.