Hymns Discussion - Tasbeha.org Community

Repentance Songs

copticuser20 — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:45:23 +0000

I am putting together a powerpoint for my Sunday School class for Lent that is filled with songs for repentance but I can only think of 5 or 6 songs. Can you guys help me think of songs? Thanks!

Lent Liturgy Recording

servant33 — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 22:43:26 +0000

Anyone know a good recording of the liturgy during lent?

Coptic Lesson 4: Ente

epchois_nai_nan — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 07:50:41 +0000

Coptic Lesson 4: `nte

To quickly recap what you have learned so far:

The Definite article: pi ] ni `p (`v) `t (`;) (pi ti ni ep (ef) et (eth) / pi di ni ep (ep) et (et))

Possessive articles: pa pen / pek pe peten / pef pec pou (pa pen / pek pe peten / pef pes pou)

This lesson will deal with the word `nte (ente/ende), and it's contracted form: `n (en) which mean 'of'.

This word and its contraction always denote POSSESSION, i.e., the fact that something belongs to something else:

piouyb `nte ]e`kklycia (pi-oweeb ente ti ekeklee-sia / pi-wEb ende ti ekeklEsia) = the priest of the Church (i.e. the Church's priest)

]mau `nte pirwmi (ti-mav ente pi-rOmi / di-mau ende pi-rOmi) = the mother of the man (i.e. the man's mother)

This is called the Possessive Construction

`nte can also be shortened to `n / `m (en/em). `m is used only when the word it is attached to begins with any of the following letters: m p b v ' and `n is used everywhere else.

`pouro `n]hiryny (ep-ouro ente ti-hirini/epouro ende di-hirEnE) = the King of peace

But, ]mau `mpirwmi = the mother of the man

Simple yes?

One more thing needs to be said to avoid confusion in later lessons though - you will notice that in all the above examples of possession, there was a definite article between the `nte and the word it applies to (or the `n/`m and the word it denotes):

`pouro `nte ]hiryny (ep-ouro ente ti-hirini/epouro ende di-hirEnE) = the King of peace

`pouro `n]hiryny (ep-ouro en-ti-hirini/epouro en-di-hirEnE) = the King of peace

This is an important feature of the Possessive Construction as it differentiates between possession and adjectives (which we will cover in the next lesson). It does not even need need to be the definite article - the possessive and indefinite articles also apply:

`pouro `ntahiryny (ep-ouro en-ta-hirini/epouro en-da-hirEnE) = the King of my peace (the possessive article)

`pouro `nouhiryny (ep-ouro en-ou-hirini/epouro en-ou-hirEnE) = the King of a peace

When no article is used, the second word becomes a PROPERTY or CHARACTERISTIC of the first word, rather than its POSSESSION - e.g.:

pirwmi `napac (pi-romi en-apas) = the man (that is) old (i.e. the OLD man)

This will be explained in more detail in the next lesson. For now, simply remember that:

1.`nte it ALWAYS denotes possession
2. `n/`m denotes possession when it is followed by an article

God bless

Night of the last supper

wfhanna1 — Mon, 04 Aug 2003 03:25:05 +0000

Hello
I am very glad that this site exsits and i give you guys 100% for effort and Commitment.

Can i just request one thing i been looking around the website but i don't seem to find Night of the Last Supper anywhere.
Can someone please try to find it and put it up?
Thank You
God Bless

Fr. Estephanous Rizk

PopeKyrillos — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:01:48 +0000

Hey everyone,

Does anyone have any audio for coptic liturgies by Fr. Estephanous Rizk? He's reposed.

Here is a sample of an Ethiopian Liturgy that he prayed.

Thanks,
PK

Elshahid Abu Fam

AikotiEnsok — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 23:51:20 +0000

Does anyone know where i can find Elshahid Abu Fam recordings that are not on this website??

THis library is very limited... and i LOVE Abu Fam!!

Coptic Lesson 1: 'The'

epchois_nai_nan — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 02:41:22 +0000

All the recent discussions about Coptic in the liturgy have made me decide to post some really simple Coptic Lessons here, so that people who wish to learn can begin to do so. I've found from previous discussions that there are in fact quite a few people out there who want to learn but are put off by the sheer lack of resources and difficulty of self-teaching. This forum is a good medium for such lessons, because people can approach them at their own pace and even ask questions if they would like.

I also have resources such as a Coptic dictionary PDF and some basic lessons which I will gladly pass on to anyone who wishes: please PM me if you wish me to email them to you.

If people find the lessons useful, I will try and continue them - I'm not sure how far they'll get or how many people are interested at the moment so we'll have to see how it goes. At the very least, I hope that they will give people a good base with which to develop their knowledge further. I'll place the first lesson in the following post.

A quick disclaimer: I'm nowhere near an expert, but I have a working understanding of the language as it's used in the Liturgy, and have collected quite a few resources which I can draw from. The resource which I am drawing from the most is Sameh Younan's "So You Want To Learn Coptic?" which I recommend to anyone wishing to learn. It is a brilliantly written guide and very easy to follow. It can be purchased from: https://www.orthodoxbook.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=226?osCsid=3b2tkuqpupin0bve0hedssipd5
(and other sites too)

`ere `Vnou] `cmou `erwten tyrou
God bless you all

Looking for an Arabic Tarneema: *Attention JohnS___2000

user00 — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:42:14 +0000

I don't know the name, I heard it at an Egyptian festival one year, the refrain is "el sah hedashar" ... like the 11th hour something...

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I would really appreciate a link where I could download the audio/mp3 file for it.

Thanks :).

John, I put your name because you usually have all the taraneem I'm looking for lol.

Looking for recording

kyrollos faheem — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 15:55:38 +0000

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know of a recording of Adam Abel (it is the hymn chanted for any prophet) and Piehlog?

I used to have the recording for the HCOC Choir but I can't seem to find that CD. If anyone can get those two recordings, that would be great. Thanks a lot.

Pauline Epistle Any Funereal Prayer

kyrollos faheem — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:56:02 +0000

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has the text for the Pauline Epistle (the reading portion after the introduction "Ethve ti..." ) for any funereal prayer as in when someone reposes. I'm NOT referring to the one that is chanted during the General Funereal Prayer after Palm Sunday Liturgy. Thanks a lot and take care.

Tarneema

Sat, 05 Feb 2011 16:00:48 +0000

There is a tarneima about monks in the wilderness and i cant seem to find the title.
(it is the same one abouna arsanious from Texas monastery) does anyone know it.

Hymns/ Songs for Egypt

Cyril97 — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:11:07 +0000

Hi all,

Can any of you please find me some hymns/songs in arabic or english (prefereably in english)
that talk about Egypt? I have some, like 5 but thaat is it.
God bless, Pray for me,

Cyril

Haidy Montaser

why — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 04:07:26 +0000

I love her. adore he rvoice.

i was wondering if anyone had a website to downlaod ALL her hymns i have quite a few but i do know that i am missing a few. Would anyone have this sort of thing.

Different Types of Annual Psalms

joeg — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 15:26:39 +0000

Ok guys, just checking I'm not making a mistake:

From what I understand, there are 5 potential ways that the Annual Psalm in the Raising of Incense & Liturgy could be chanted:

1) Either "damgan" - in the same way that the Canon (Amen Alleluia Doxa Patri) at the end of the Liturgy is said.

2) The Short Annual tune: "Al Molakhass el mokhtasar" (Like the one on this page)

3) The Medium Annual Tune: "Al Molakhass" (Like this)

4) The Long Annual Tune (also called the Great Ouoini tune): titled here as "2nd Liturgy Psalm - Great Annual Tune." (the one on that page marked as "Long Annual tune" is the normal "Al Molakhass.")

5) In the case of Raising of Evening Incense, the psalm could be chanted in the style of "Je Avsaji."
As I posted that URL, its Cantor Wagdi Bishara, but it's marked Liturgy Psalm... I always thought the "Je Avsaji" tune was reserved for Raising of Evening Incense only?

Sound about right to you?

Anyone have a recording of the completely normal tune (no.1) I mentioned first? (I have recordings of them all except for that one)

Are the top 4 tunes completely interchangeable whenever? (I get the feeling they are, but could someone confirm for me please?)

What do you know about the "Je Avsaji" tune? Is it exclusive to Vespers only?

Thank you all

what must I (a protestant) do to be accepted in the orthodox church?

lightening — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:11:58 +0000

what must i do to inherit a place in the orthodox (the true!) church?
thank you for any advice

Coptic Lesson 0.5: Alphabet and Pronunciation

epchois_nai_nan — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 08:29:08 +0000

Lesson 0.5 - Alphabet and Pronunciation

This lesson aims to give an introduction to reading the Coptic Alphabet. It is lesson '0.5' because it is not truly necessary to understand the other lessons, although I would recommend reading over it once. I will be providing transliterations of Coptic words in all the following lessons, so hopefully the alphabet will become natural to you eventually.

Here, I will provide letter values for both GB and OB. What are GB and OB? Here is a brief explanation:

Greco-Bohairic (GB): The pronunciation the Church uses now. It is the result of a reform instituted in the 1850s by Pope Kyrillos IV which replaced the natural values of Coptic letters for those of their modern Greek counterparts.

Old Bohairic (OB): the reconstruction proposed by Fr. Shenouda Maher which purports to restore Coptic to the way it was before the 1850s. It is still controversial.

In these lessons, I will provide English transliterations in both Old and Greco Bohairic - BUT I should point out that I use a slightly different version of Old Bohairic than Fr. Shenouda (sorry in advance Ophadece :)) - the differences are very small however, and I will point them out.

So, let's start with the EASY letters. Most of these resemble their English counterparts, and you will be able to guess their values. The best part is, both OB & GB agree on their pronunciation:

A a= a (as in 'father', 'obama' and 'up')
Z z= z
I i= i, (or 'y' if at the beginning of a word)
K k= k
L l= l
M m= m
N n= n
O o= o
R r= r
C c= s
< ,= k
W w= o (a long 'o', as in ... well, long)
" ' = ps (as in Pepsi)

The above letters are all Greek in origin (hence their resemblance to English), however, the early Coptic scribes felt it necessary to import seven other letters with purely Egyptian origins:

S s= sh
F f= f
Q q= kh
H h= h, or 'H' like the Arabic letter 'Ha' - a heavy H which comes from the back of the throat
J j= dj (as in porridge or baggage)
{ [= ch (Like 'chuck')
} ]= ti (This letter is something of mystery - why import a whole new letter when you could just write ti?)

All the above letters are pretty much uncontested, the following unfortunately, are not. I will give the GB and OB values for each one, and point out where I have made a deviation from Fr. Shenouda's proposed OB.

B b:
GB - v (except at the end of a word, where it is a 'b')
OB - w (except at the end of a word, where it is a 'b')

G g:
GB: gh
OB: dj

(Note: when doubled, like in aggeloc, the sound formed is: 'ng' (GB) or 'nj' (OB). So aggeloc is pronounced 'angelos' in GB and 'anjelos' in OB.)

D d:
GB: dh (like the 'th' in this - a soft 'th')
OB: d

E e:
GB: e (as in men)
OB: a (as in apple)
My OB transliteration will render this letter as an 'e' mostly because differentiating between the two 'a's can make things unnecessarily complicated. I can also provide sources which suggest that this was the original value. However feel free to pronounce it as an 'a' (as in [b]Abouna, not as in Obama) if you wish - the two sounds are phonetically interchangeable.[/b]

Y y:
GB: ee (like in 'jeep')
OB: a long 'e' (as in air or care)

: ;:
GB: th (hard 'th', as in 'theatre')
OB: t (a strong 't', like the 'ta' in Arabic or the 't' in stop)

P p:
GB: p
OB: b
My OB transliteration will render this letter as a 'P' I can provide articles and other sources which support this - I believe this to be an Arabisation (since Arabic has no 'p') and the letter corresponds to 'p' in Demotic and Hieroglyphic words. This also helps grammatical consistency, as will become clear in future lessons. Feel free to pronounce it as a 'b' if you wish, as the two sounds are very similar when spoken or sung.

T t:
GB: t
OB: d

V v:
GB: f, ph
OB: b
My OB transliteration will render this letter as a 'P' for the same reasons given for p above - again, this difference is barely noticeable verbally, but it makes a lot of sense grammatically as will become clear later.

The final letter is U u. I have left it until last because it is strange in that it only ever appears AFTER an 'a', 'e' or 'o'.

In GB:
au = av
eu = ev
ou = oo (ou)

In OB:
au = aw
eu = ew
ou = oo OR 'w' when before a vowel (e.g. alou = al-oo BUT ouyr = wair/weyr (pronounced like 'where')

If this all seems massively confusing, don't panic - I will provide transliterations of everything in both GB and OB so you will not have to memorise the entire list - eventually, reading these letters will become natural and subconscious.

I will post some examples for you to practice on in a follow up post to this one.

God bless

How Could I Forget

copticuser20 — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:17:40 +0000

Hey does anyone have the full lyrics for How Could I Forget? I feel like the one here is missing a verse:http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/747

Coptic Lesson 3: Possession

epchois_nai_nan — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 03:58:39 +0000

Lesson 3: Possession

Now that we have learned the definite article [ {pi ] ni `p(`v) `t(`;) (pi ti ni ep(ef) et(eth)/pi di ni ep et)], it will be much easier to learn the POSSESSIVE article. In case you missed the first 3 lessons, here they are:

Lesson 0.5 - Alphabet and Pronunciation: http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,10616.0.html
Lesson 1 - 'The': http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,10615.0.html
Lesson 2 - The 'Weak' Definite Article: http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,10625.0.html

The possessive article is basically exactly what it sounds like: it indicates possession. In English, possessive articles are words like 'my' and 'his' and 'yours'. They tell us who things belong to.

It may be helpful here to quickly go over the concept of 1st, 2nd and 3rd person, just in case it is rusty:
1st person = I, we (refers to the speaker/s)
2nd person = You (refers to the person/s being spoken to)
3rd person = He, She, They (refers to person/s not being spoken to at the moment)

Now, in Coptic, the possessive article works in a very similar way to the definite article, because depending on the gender of the THING, the first letter will be different. You remember that the definite article for male objects was pi (pi), for female was ] (ti/di) and for plural was ni (ni). So you should have a concept that in Coptic, the sound 'p' is associated with male things, 't' with female things and 'n' with plural things - this is worth remembering as it will come in very handy, as it does here. Possessive articles for male objects begin with p(p), female with t (t/d) and plural with n (n).

Using the possessive article for male objects as an example:
1st Person: pa (pa) = my, pen (pen) = our

2nd Person: pek (pek) = your (m), pe (pe) = your (f), peten (peten/peden) = your (pl.)

[If you know Arabic, the concept of having three different "you's" will be familiar to you, there is one if the person you are talking to is a male, another if they are a female, and another if they are a group (enta, enti and entu)]

3rd Person: pef (pef) = his, pec (pes) = her, pou (pou) = their

So let's use the MALE word ouro (ouro) = king, as an example:

1st Person:
My king: paouro (pa-ouro)
Our king: penouro (penouro)

2nd Person:
Your king (speaking to a male): pekouro (pek-ouro)
Your king (speaking a female): peouro (pe-ouro)
Your king (speaking to more than one person): petenouro (peten-ouro/peden-ouro)

3rd Person:
His king: pefouro (pef-ouro)
Her king: pecouro (pes-ouro)
Their king: pououro (pou-ouro)

If you were to talk about a FEMALE object, you would simply swap the initial p (p) in all the above, for a t (t/d) - so using the female word cwni (soni) = sister, as an example:

My sister: tacwni (ta-soni)
Our sister: tencwni (ten-soni)
Your sister (if YOU are male): tekcwni (tek-soni)

... and so on, exactly as above.

If you were talking about a PLURAL noun, then you simply use n (n) as the initial letter:

My kings: naouro (na-ouro)
Our kings: nenouro (nen-ouro)

... etc.

So to summarise, here are the male possessive articles:
pa pen | pek pe peten | pef pec pou
(i.e. mine our | your (m, f, pl.) | his her their)

A good way to memorise them is to break them into three groups and say them rhythmically in your head: pa-pen / pek-pe-peten / pef-pes-pou

If you remember these, and the fact that male = p, female = t and plural = n, you will have completely mastered the possessive article.

Again, I will post some examples for practice below.

God bless!

Psalm 150 Response for Jonah's Fast

kyrollos faheem — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 02:03:54 +0000

Hello everyone,

As many of you already know that the fast of Jonah the prophet is coming up and I would like to get your opinions about the response Psalm 150 for the fast. According to the following link that is chanted by Wagdi Bishara http://tasbeha.org/media/index.php?st=Hymns/Fasts/Jonah/Wagdi_Bishara/12-Psalm_150_Jonah_Wagdi_Bishara.1955.mp3, there is a response and he records it. However, I've always heard that there is no response at all for the fast and that you just combine two verse per quartet of tune. I'm confused about this because I heard opposing sides to this issue. Another point that I would like to point out is that on the link provided above, Wagdi Bishara chants the second response only and does not mention anything about or chant the first response. Can anyone provide a recording that incorporates the first response. Surprisingly, Cantor Ibrahim Ayad does not record Psalm 150 at all in his rites for the fast that is on this site. Thank you very much and God Bless.

29th of the month feast except which months?

copticuser20 — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:47:45 +0000

Which months do we not celebrate the 29th of the month? the 29th of Touba is this Sunday. Are we celebrating it?

Evlogimenos

Cyril97 — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 09:06:50 +0000

Hi all,
I just wanted to know some stuff regarding the hymn: Evlogimenos.
I personally love it.
I just wanted to know what is the origin of this hymn.
When do we say it? I know we say it in the entrance of a bishop or pope and on
Palm Sunday but I don't know when exactly.
I knew a website that explains why hymns are to be sung in a specific way, like low as in suffering,
long as for something eternal. But I forgot it. Does anyone know it? Would it have evlogimenos?
If I were to teach it, is there hazzats for this hymn? I know it is easy to learn but...
Thanks for or your help anyways,
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril

Coptic Lesson 2: The Weak Definite Article

epchois_nai_nan — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 01:08:15 +0000

The 'Weak' Definite Article

The main and most important definite articles are the three listed in lesson 1: pi ] ni (pi ti ni).
These are technically referred to as the 'strong' definite articles. However, pi and ] each have a 'weak' form:

The weak form of pi is `p (`v) [ep (ef) / ep(ep)]
The weak form of ] is `t (`;) [et (eth)/ et (et)]

`v and `; are used for words that begin with any of the following: b l m n o r, while `p and `t are used on all other words. For example:

`psyri (ep-sheeri/ep-shEri) = the Son and `vnou] (efnouti/ep-noudi) = (the) God
`thelpic (et-helpis) = the Hope vs. `;mau (eth-mav/et-maw) = the Mother

However, as with all languages, sometimes Coptic breaks its own rules. The correct 'weak' article for ouro (ouro) = king is actually `p even though it starts with an o. Don't ask me why.

You use the weak form instead of the strong one when you want to emphasise the 'uniqueness' or 'specialness' of the thing you're referring to. It's almost like capitalising a word in English - the King, as opposed the king, a god as opposed to God. For this reason, you'll notice that almost all the terms we use to refer to God in the liturgy use the weak form rather than the strong:

`vnou] (efnouti/ep-noudi) = God vs. pinou] (pi-nouti/pi-noudi) = the god
`psyri (ep-sheeri/ep-shEri) = the Son vs. pisyri (pi-sheeri/pi shEri) = the son
`viwt (ef-yot/ef-yod) = the Father vs. piiwt (pi-yot/pi-yod) = the father
`p[oic (ep-chois) = the Lord vs. pi[oic = the lord

The same applies to St. Mary who is affectionately referred to as the Mother, rather than simply, the mother:
`;mau (ethmav/et-maw) = the Mother vs. ]mau (ti-mav/di-maw) = the mother

Use often has the implied meaning of 'O' (like 'ya' in Arabic), when used to address someone, so often, `p[oic will be translated as 'O Lord', and `vnou] as 'O God'.

And that is it! If you add `p (`v) and `t (`;) to pi ] ni which you learned earlier, you have mastered the Coptic definite article!!!

Well done!

Lessons for Deacons

Amoussa01 — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 16:57:23 +0000

I am preparing to start a curriculum for the deacons of our church and I would appreciate ideas and topics that some of you might like to share in order for this service to be successful. As far as topics go, we have the Christ-likeness in the service, Serving in love, Caring for the parish, the rites of the church, hymns, and sacraments. Any other ideas or topics are welcome!

Theophany "coti emon" response

copticuser20 — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:33:21 +0000

So i am not really sure what this is called but i call it the "coti emon" response. We usually say "je aki ak coti emon" on annual days and for christmas we say avmacf and so on...

For The Feast of the Theophany, my alhan teacher (he knows a lot...he is our church moalim" says its "je ak oms ak" but every book i have seen says "je avechioms ak". which one is right?

Peniot Avva Antonios Arabish Request

bkaras — Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:25:41 +0000

Looking for the Arabish of this.

Same one as the one here. http://tasbeha.org/mp3/Songs/Arabic/Orthodoxies.html

English text is here.. http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/index.php?a=view&id=1134

If anyone could provide any other arabish for St. Antony that would be great.

God bless.

Holy Week Hymns

kyrollos faheem — Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:50:59 +0000

Hello everyone,

I was just on copticheritage.org and I noticed that one of the lessons that they have for the Holy Week is "Dimas." I was wondering if anyone has the text for this hymn. Here is the link to the page that has the 4-part lesson for the hymn http://copticheritage.org/Classes.phtml

Thank you very much and God Bless.

Al Masmor el Molakhas

abanoub2000 — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 17:57:08 +0000

Hey guys I need a recording of the Great Melismatic Year-Round psalm, also known as Al-Molakhass

I have cantor tewfik and Fahim

But the recordings aren't all that great.... does any one have a different one?? preferably something recent.

I'll even take CIA.... anything comprehensible!!!

Use of "modern English" in the Divine Liturgy and other services

joseph.vandenbrink — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:31:11 +0000

Christ is in our midst!

I am an EO Christian, from the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, and we use what is commonly dubbed, "King James English," however of the praise services and Agpeya prayers I've attended (and read) I notice that more modern translation is used in the services. Of course I have my preference toward the old English, especially when the prayers/hymns are directed directly to God, but I am unclear as to why the Coptic Church (like the EO Orthodox Church in America. Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada, and Greek Orthodox Church of America) use modern English? Also, is there an Agpeya published for official use in proper (old) English?

Thank you, and I look forward to seeing how this discussion unfolds.

Pray for me, a sinner.
joseph

Need to know the whole liturgy!

coptic boy777 — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:11:07 +0000

Does anyone have or know a good recording of a st. basil liturgy? and does anyone have some kind of video/sermon that teaches every part of the liturgy?

Thanks

Lyrics for the hymnson this site. PLEASE!

[Deleted User] — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:36:39 +0000

I downloaded most of the hymns on this site to my MP4 mostly coptic and english, but some arabic.

I want to memorize these hymns since each one of them has a beautiful message to the words. I can only memorize them by reading the words while praising along.

I listened to most of them this week and tried to write down the words, but some of the words I couldn't make out.

So if anyone in tasbeha could help me to complete the lyrics for the rest of the hymns, I will be happy and glorify God with these beautiful hymns.

I already did some, but there are a few missing words here and there. I wish someone could help me with this so the lyrics can be added to this site for anyone who wants to read it.

So, can anyone help? Admin?
Thanks and please pray for me.