Faith Issues - Tasbeha.org Community

way of deletion part 3

mikeforjesus — Sat, 29 Sep 2012 10:42:50 +0000

1 2 3 complete

This one will be the last topic: How Jesus will save His people from their Sins

mikeforjesus — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:13:02 +0000

Salvation from sin is not by our works but by the LORD's power. I am only learning this with more assurance now
"According to His mercy He saved us"

Ezekiel talks about receiving a new heart a heart of flesh not of stone. I the LORD will put My Spirit in you and cause you to walk in my commandments

I think perhaps if we pray only the Our Father once a day with our heart then we will rule over sin
for in it we pray give us this day our Daily bread. So I guess we also need to read the word
so I guess we also should take the Holy Communion

So I am getting nowhere with this thread.

but these works have no benefits unless we are doers of the word

But those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

This is a painful sacrifice I have to make to leave religious talk when I feel it is my responsibility to address my concerns

Nonetheless I have to stop being such a shameful liar and trust in the LORD

Hopefully one last topic: On Converting Unbelievers

mikeforjesus — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:00:38 +0000

I really think it was not God's will to make war between families.
Jesus said I did not come to bring peace on earth but a sword. There has to be fights just as I have fighted with my parents over some religious things but they know that I love them.
But this is the same God who said Love believes all things hopes all things love never fails
The same God who said honor your parents and not to abandon them to sacrifice to the LORD.
The same God who said Honor all people.
The same God who said "Peace on earth and good will towards man"

Why should we make it so hard for an unbeliever to be saved? not only they will not be saved but they will be damned in fire without any hope of release but it is easier for a believer to be saved (they are the sons of the kingdom as all the jews were they are the natural branches it is expected of them to continue in Him) As God gave the prodigal son the freedom
to choose his way let them choose their way and pray for them to return without passing any judgement
However there is a time to save with fear pulling them out of the fire. For those who choose not to repent are treasuring up great wrath for themselves and every small offense will not be payed for by His blood and all their haughtiness must disappear if they ever enter the kingdom

If you really love your parents o you who was born lost and seperated from God you would obey God and not man for He does not wish to harm you
"Peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you"
By obeying God you will pray for your parents.
So lets draw others to Christ and tell them to honor their parents just as Elijah will do. Let them be a christian because they love their parents. Let them have the freedom to accept Christ in their heart while they be muslims, jew, buddhist etc in their places of worship
Be good children and witness for your parents

The point of this post is christianity today is a great shame. It is causing all the evil's between families and the lack of spread of God's kingdom perhaps and is making it hard for others to continue their walk in Jesus and making others become a human wreck and destroying people's lives and giving them despair
None of the law makes any sense.. we have no duty towards our neighbor anymore because we justify the injustice we see in the world saying they should be hurting

Can you blame the unbelievers for killing christians for converting muslims to christians if it is making those converts hate their parents?
ofcourse but are they hating without a cause?

Re: Why Didn't Jesus Wish To Be Crowned King?

Purity2 — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 20:59:23 +0000

St. John 6:15 Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.

?Why did He do that?

Too many things I can name this thread

mikeforjesus — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 03:00:25 +0000

The ones which came to my mind were:

The Presence of real evil in the world

Revealing my Psychosis

The rage of the antichrists

Why did the nations rage and the people plot a vain thing?

For the Sake of your true people I will now rebuke an awful reality

Now this topic is about the most despicable beings that I know and have felt have ever existed
They try to murder the quiet and worshipper ones of the land.
This if heard by some people will be called psychosis. If I ever tell my family they deny everything

Now this has happend more than 20 times

If I brake a small social rule just once (come on you controller) and decide to sing in the public washroom (it is an isolated washroom by the way few people are meant to pass by it) about christ people
are so furious and hateful and they knock on the door to get me out. But they work all in darkness because they hate
the light so much.

I have never caught such people. When I come out quickly to catch them those fiendish beasts
have disappeared.

They try to kill people like me.

Everyday they give me hateful looks.

They are pathetic

Some of you are probably of that type which will make you hide yourself and ignore me.
Now who belongs to God, you hateful fiends or umm me?

just want to delete this topic on ..

mikeforjesus — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:31:51 +0000

something fishy about this topic..

..does not seem likely unless

I want to do charity work

mikeforjesus — Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:10:23 +0000

I could sponsor an egyptian student to do orthodox studies but I think that ministry is more for the diligent who can spare money wisely and for those who have much. The bible says to give as much as you prosper. I am not zealous for that ministry because I believe Jesus does not put unnecessary obstacles to the peoples from accepting Him and so he does not only accept Orthodox.

I would like to sponsor any student who has academic difficulties and has mental health issues only if I have proof he is serious about his studies and therefore he would need to give account of how he is spending his time. I would like there to be a witness for how he is spending his time even if that witness is a video camera

But I don't have my own money yet. Also no one thinks to ask others for help.

However I do not only want to help egyptians but all people and then I will taste and see that the LORD is good for He said the Sun of Righteousness will arise with healing in His wings

So I want to be coached to try to make money that I may gain riches in heaven. I do not fulfill my responsibilities diligently because I do not know how it hurts others and I don't trust I will make wise decisions with the mammon of unrighteousness

I read on facebook someone say He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep which finally pushed me to yap whats inside me

There is one who does not give and comes to poverty and one who gives and becomes rich

Give and it will be give to you

By obeying I will obtain the grace of the Holy Spirit and peace

He gives and does not spare. His righteousness endures forever

Why should our goals be left undone?

But I do not know how to manage this task. Can't the church get involved?

I think the problem is not me who is unwilling to give but it is those who don't want to get better or be humble

you ask and you do not receive because you want to spend it on your pleasures and sins, and forget God's will completely

The government does not pay for one on one endless tutoring done by a patient tutor until he sees his student succeed because that costs a lot for people like me

The place of the Virgin Mary in salvation?

kalsam — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 13:06:51 +0000

Dear All,

What is the Orthodox church's view on the place of the Holy Virgin Mary in salvation? can the intercession of the saints save an otherwise hell-bound person?

Saint Justin Martyr and Subordinationism

Severian — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:26:04 +0000

What do you all think of the accusation (for lack of a better word) of subordinationism in the writings of Saint Justin Martyr? On the one hand, He does affirm that our Lord Jesus Christ is God and that He is the "LORD [YHWH] of Hosts", but on the other hand some have read subordinationism into St. Justin's other words.

He also refers to Christ as being the "first-begotten Word of God, even God." Would it be safe to assume that by "first-begotten" he means that Christ is the heir of all creation, having the position of preeminence in the universe, rather than saying that He is a created being? What are your thoughts? Am I not being specific enough?

+Thanks and forgive me if this question sounds foolish

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Ecumenism

ReturnOrthodoxy — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:04:19 +0000

[center]Before I begin, I will ask for one request. This thread must be kep absolutely respectful. It is a touchy issue. I ask you, in the name of Christ, not to be disrespectful to ANYONE in your posts, and to make this a discussion, rather than an argument. There are great minds on this site, let it not go to waste in anger. Please, Please, Please, check your posts before you publish them. No name calling, heresy labeling, or anger. [/center]

The Topic of Ecumenism is growing. There are many who are wondering about what is happening between the EO and the OO. Personally, I consider myself an ecumenist, and I know that there are others who disagree. What I would like to see is the opinions of others, ecumenist or anti, and to understand what points there are. Much can come of this.

First, if we my begin with a discussion on Chalcedon. It is a shame Father Peter is no longer here, but we can try to make do.

Stavro and imikhail, and Severian, and Remnkemi, you all seem understanding of this topic. I would love you inputs especially.

ReturnOrthodoxy

The Greek Septuagint Bible ONLINE

Hezekiel — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:00:29 +0000

Hi ALL:

The New Testament quotes the Septuagint more often against the Hebrew. For example, St Paul refers to the Septuagint version of the Old Testament rather than the Masoretic texts. At any rate, I would like to attach the link to an online version of the Greek Old Testament Scriptures, Including the Apocrypha for references.

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

Matthew 9:5

ThyWillBeDone — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 22:30:04 +0000

"Which is easier to say, your sins are forgiven, or get up and walk?" Matthew 9:5

I do not understand this verse whatsoever. Please explain :)

Pray for me

Among the Dead, no one can remember??

metouro — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:42:45 +0000

In the Agpeya, we quote the psalms in the latanies of the Compline Prayer and we say,

"... among the dead, no one can remember, nor do those in Hades offer thanks..."

I am perplexed by this saying. I thought that the dead CAN remember, as illustrated by the Rich Man Vs. Lazarus. Christ said that the rich ased Abraham to send Lazarus to witness to his brothers on Earth. He remembered his brothers and cared for them and had thoughts about them even while in Hades.

How is it then that "among the dead, no one can remember"?

Bought at a price

sodr2 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:38:07 +0000

Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Corinthians 6

What does it mean when we say we were "bought at a price"? If we belong to God then how do we still have free will?

Friendship

Agape47 — Tue, 21 Aug 2012 20:57:00 +0000

Can someone give me the true meaning of Christian friendship

"Man and Redemption": a Summary of the Patristic View of the Atonement

Severian — Thu, 19 Jul 2012 03:11:15 +0000

I just wanted to share a summary that I wrote of a book by Fr. Tadros Yacoub Malaty called "Man and Redemption", where he explains the Orthodox view of the atonement using Scriptural and Patristic sources. This summary isn't academic in nature, it was for my own reference. I highly recommend you guys read the actual book, which can be found here. Feel free to elaborate upon this summary if you would like. If anyone else who has read the book feels I am doing Fr. Tadros' work injustice, then please tell me so I can correct myself.

[hr]

Free-Will and Adam’s Sin

God has created us in his image: love. God wishes to pour forth his love on each of us personally as if each one of us were a close personal friend. In contemplating the relationship of God and man one must acknowledge the soul and body. Contrary to the teachings of Origen the body is not a prison but, rather a divine gift by which one can partake of all human needs. God wishes to send forth his salvation on man as a whole, both soul and body. He sent his eternal Word to become incarnate and through him we may dwell in the bosom of the Father eternally. God bestows upon us free will. St. Cyril states that we were created in the divine image; free-will. By Adam’s disobedience we lost the divine image (free-will). How then was our free will weakened? St Athanasius said that prior to Adam’s fall the human mind was not subject to carnal lusts, now it is however, and we must lift up our minds to God through his grace. He continues to say that our souls, mobile by nature, did not cease activity but, rejected what was good and turned towards evil. St Clement said that Adam and Eve became fixated on sexual lusts and became overpowered by carnal pleasures. He teaches that Adam represents all of mankind and that everyone has a choice to either obey God or violate his ordinances as Adam and Eve had before us. We did not inherit their own guilt or fault but rather their perverted sensuality. In his battle with heretics Origen taught the preexistence of souls. He said that God created these souls as equal essences that tried to imitate him. The souls disobeyed God, though, not as awfully as the demons. They were bound to human bodies as imprisonment (this is Origen’s heretical teaching)

Free-will and God’s Providence

God uses the evil committed against others for their salvation. St Clement clarifies this point using the biblical example of Joseph. And also Judas in his misuse of free-will brought about the crucifixion, the central turning point of human salvation. God does not create evil, but, he does not prevent it when it’s displayed in others. Why? Because God can use this evil to bring about good. Had Judas not betrayed Christ there would be no passion or crucifixion. And thus no resurrection and no victory over principalities and powers. Also, how is virtue to be brought about if there is no struggle with evil?

Human Nature

Man is a true unity of body and soul. Both dynamic existences within his being. So the Incarnate Word took upon true humanity and upon doing so he has blessed human nature as a whole, as taught by saints Severus and Philoxenos. Alexandrian fathers struggled against Gnostic heretics who rejected the body as evil. The body can be used for good or evil depending on how the mind presides over it. There is nothing inherently evil about us because we were created by God. The human mind is crucial to our relationship with God. With divine grace the human mind can conceive mysteries otherwise unfathomable. St Athanasius says that the soul has the “word of faith” inscribed in it. The Lord Christ also said the Kingdom of Heaven is within us all. The road to God is our own soul and the intelligence that resides therein. Through the Lord Christ one can have a loving communion with the Father in the Son and through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit unites us in our complete human nature (soul, mind, body, energies, and emotions) to God and he harmonizes us with ourselves. Before they were in Christ Sts Paul the Apostle and Moses the Black were wicked, but, through the Holy Spirit there lives were changed.

God’s Role in Man’s Salvation

St. Athanasius said that when Adam disobeyed God we deviated from paradise into death and we needed someone to renew us. Repentance alone does not allow us to realize the fruit of disobedience, death, as a result of Adam’s disobedience. It also does not have the power to conquer sin and death. The Mosaic law only made us realize our sins, but, it cannot grant us true life. It prepared the way for the Messiah, the heavenly physician. Man needs a redeemer who can reconcile God’s mercy and justice together granting him a new life which tramples death. He is the Christ the incarnate only-begotten son. The Savior must be God himself. He granted us the following:

1. Declaring the Creator’s Goodness
God formed man from nothing and prepared for him salvation. In the last of days he sent his only son for the world’s salvation see John 3:16. St Athanasius says that it would not be appropriate if God let his creation waste away as a result of Satan’s deceit so he came to show us his love. Saint Clement of Alexandria says that the Word who fashioned us came as our teacher and taught us how to live, he may afterwards as God grant us eternal life, he pitied us since the beginning then appeared to us and saved us.

2. To Join Us With Himself
Redemption is unity with God. By Christ’s blood we can be united with God. St Athanasius says that had Christ been a creature we could not unite to God. Origen says that Christ’s blood propitiated us and that he destroyed the enemies and made peace, he reconciled us to God by abolishing the barrier of wickedness caused by sin.

3. To Accomplish God’s Sentence of Death
St Athanasius said that Christ assumed humanity and death on our behalf. He died in the place of all. Through him all may be free of the curse that resulted due to our sin. By his resurrection all may be free from corruption. By his death he set us all free from the liability of our transgressions.

4. To Undergo Death (and conquer it)
The problem surrounding our human nature was not only forgiveness of sins , but, the death and corruption that it was subject to. St. Cyril says Christ’s perfect humanity was the only thing that could trample death. St Clement said by assuming death Christ turned death into life and turned mortality to immortality. St Athanasius teaches that Christ assumed mortal human form in order to die and resurrect, conquering death. He continues to say that by assuming our nature Christ has, in a way, united and dwelled with each and every one of us. Death no longer holds us because of the Word Incarnate‘s assumption of death. He also raises the question saying if God made man by a word why not redeem him by a word? But, bringing things into being is different than redeeming things already in existence, so it was only appropriate that God would use a human instrument to redeem us. Because death was engendered to the body the Savior fought death in a body.

5. To Conquer Our Enemy, Satan
St Athanasius says that if Christ were a creature then Satan should have no anxiety because of our Lord Jesus Christ, but, because Christ was God himself he conquered the enemy. By conquering death, the tool which Satan used to hold humanity in his clutches, Christ has conquered Satan.

6. To Raise Us Up To Heaven
In him, Christ, we may unite with God and be raised to heaven.

7. To Renew Our Nature
St. Paul makes a distinction between animal’s sacrifices and Christ’s sacrifice. The former had to be repeated because it was incapable of renewing human nature. Christ’s sacrifice was once and for all and all who turn to him can have their nature renewed turning mortality into immortality. We can participate in his life. Origen says Christ summons those who are flesh to bear his divine image. He may deify us (not in his essence of course). St Clement said the Logos reduced himself to our weakness so that we may be raised to power. God became man so that we may learn from a man how to “become god”. St Athanasius says God assumed what was ours so that he may impart to us what is his. We become a new creation. Christ has come in the flesh, condemned sin, and sanctified our nature that we may partake of his, see 2 Pet 1:4. By his incarnation Christ has despoiled Hades renewed Adam and made paradise accessible to all. He has turned curse to blessing.

8. To Realize Universalism
The Savior’s sacrifice took effect in all times and places. All who turn to him can have eternal life.

9. To Grant Us True Knowledge “Gnosis”
St Clement calls spiritual believers “Gnostics”. Knowledge comes from the Father through the Son. The Son came to grant us knowledge of the Father.

Man’s Role In His Salvation

1. Predestination and Man’s Free Will
God does not “predestine” someone’s fate nor does he choose people for their salvation. It is his desire that all may be saved. God wishes all to live in him. It is our own choice to cut ourselves off from him. What St Paul means in Eph 1:4 is that God has imparted knowledge and love of him in our hearts.

2. Faith and Good Works
A. The Alexandrian Church integrates all aspects of living in the life of her faithful. Theology cannot be separated from worship and asceticism. Many Alexandrian Patriarchs were deans of the Catechetical school of Alexandria. We must live our lives in Christ by participating in worship and having a good relationship with others not just believing in dogmas alone.

B. We cannot perform good works like practicing the law or believe that we can save ourselves based on our own righteousness. Good works performed in the grace of God are from a believer’s heart and perfects faith. We cannot perform anything righteous apart from God. Our works will affect our judgment. The Alexandrian fathers said that good works is our reaction to God’s love by his help.

3. Grace and Man’s Free-Will
A believer can choose to have the will of God act within him. At the same time one can reject God’s grace. “For we are God’s fellow workers” - Corinthians 3:9. Salvation is achieved when God and man work together. [Remember Origen’s example in Psalm 126 (127)].

4. Trust in Enjoying the Kingdom
Hope in the mercy of God otherwise, you will lose salvation. Though we can be saved by Christ’s sacrifice we must repent and realize we are sinners.

Church Fathers and Early Christian Doctrines

Severian — Sun, 12 Aug 2012 16:54:43 +0000

I would just like to create this thread as a database, gathering different quotes from the various Church Fathers concerning early Christian beliefs about things pertaining to doctrine (I.e. the Holy Trinity, Soteriology, the Eucharist, etc.). Try to keep any actual discussion to a minimum. In this post I will be providing a source from the Fathers pertaining to the Persons of the Trinity. Please try to keep the thread organized. Bold the title of your post (the title should be what doctrine you are trying to discuss, in my case, the Trinity) provide the relevant Patristic quote(s) or webpage(s) and then cite a source. And try to indicate what year or century the quote is from.

The Trinity

Here's a great webpage with a lot of early Trinitarian quotes:

http://www.bible.ca/H-trinity.htm

+Pray for me

Adam and Eve

Hezekiel — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:46:34 +0000

Hello:

There is no way to understand the Bible without understanding the book of Genesis.

Genesis 1:28-- And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Were Adam and Eve celibate before the fall? Apparently yes,but why ! If I am not mistaken, Tradition holds they had lived in the garden of Eden for several years.So why haven't they reproduced during this time? What were they doing the whole day?

'The Heresy of Deifying the Human' - Pope Shenouda

epchois_nai_nan — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:34:36 +0000

Hi all,

I recently came across an article by our late, beloved father Pope Shenouda. It's from El-Keraza (23 Feb 2007), called 'The Heresy of Deifying the Human'. This particular part troubled me:

Criticising proponents of deification, HH says "They also say that we share the divine nature through the Eucharist Sacrament. Through which we eat and drink divinity!! And when we opposed them in this they accused us in our faith!"

He seems to be arguing that we do not share in the divine nature in the Eucharist. That we are not eating or drinking 'divinity' in the Eucharist. But doesn't the priest say 'His divinity parted not from His humanity, not for a single moment nor a twinkling of an eye', and that we are partaking of both in the Eucharist?

There were some other troubling claims in the article as well, but I'm interested to know what people think about that in particular.

In XC

Free will vs. God's Plan

ashsofennoub — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:28:18 +0000

Ok, I don't know if a thread has come up on this before, but lately I've been struggling with this idea. Does God have a plan for each one of us? I know it's a nice and fuzzy feeling when someone thinks everything is happening for a reason, but the implication of this, at least in my mind, and I desperately wish someone will correct me, is that we no longer have free will. If God has a specific plan for each person, then how do we make choices that affect our lives, if even those choices are preordained by God? Any clarification about this would be great.

Thank you all, and pray for me.

Original Sin

Meena_Ameen — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:46:40 +0000

Surprisingly, I had a coptic priest over at my house the other day, and we began talking about babies. Eventually we got to the idea of sin, and he said that the coptic orthodox belief is that we believe we inherited the sin of adam, and the baptism washes us from that original sin. All my life I was taught otherwise though.. What is the real coptic belief??? I believed that we were born with the Nature of Sin, that does not even begin until the infant has reached a certain age in which he can be judged for his/her sins. But how can I be born with the Sin of my father Adam? How can another mans sin be counted as my own? Where is the Justice in that?

Baptism of Twins co-joined?

Zoxsasi — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 04:13:21 +0000

Hi,

In a case where you have 2 co-joined twins (i.e. 2 heads, 1 body) - what happens if 1 wants to get baptised and the other doesn't?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2185896/Extraordinary-conjoined-twins-expected-survive-infancy-star-reality-TV-charting-graduation-travels-Europe.html

Can they be baptised?

What about Marriage? What if one wants to get married and the other doesn't? Or, what if 1 wants to get married, and she gets married because the other doesn't mind - would that be adultery?

How does adultery work in this case?

Sorry if this question is a bit odd, I was just curious.

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