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1
Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Gay Weddings/Marriages & Raising Kids
« on: June 15, 2013, 07:04:23 AM »
I'm sorry my post gave off that impression. It's far from that. From what I've seen society continues to soften this matter to simply no big deal. “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” - Isaiah 5:20.
Would anyone want to see someone going down a path that is clearly going to be eternally weakening and just stand there. That's not Love. God is love and He is also Truth. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth is God. Christ Who is the Way, Truth and Life is God. So God is Truth as well as Love. These go together.
Do not get me wrong, this isn't about cutting off friends if they are struggling with this, it's not even about any carnal desires from any other person, it's about sharing a decision that is clearly wrong by Christ by us attending. H.G Bishop Youssef, when asked by a person that befriended those who are homosexual, responded: “By associating with them you will make them feel they're accepted and that there is nothing wrong with their behaviour. This feeling would encourage them to live the life they are leading without considering changing it." These are the words of someone who rightly divides the word of truth. It's as if we are saying I surrender to their actions by our very conduct. Hope this clarifies a bit.
Would anyone want to see someone going down a path that is clearly going to be eternally weakening and just stand there. That's not Love. God is love and He is also Truth. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth is God. Christ Who is the Way, Truth and Life is God. So God is Truth as well as Love. These go together.
Do not get me wrong, this isn't about cutting off friends if they are struggling with this, it's not even about any carnal desires from any other person, it's about sharing a decision that is clearly wrong by Christ by us attending. H.G Bishop Youssef, when asked by a person that befriended those who are homosexual, responded: “By associating with them you will make them feel they're accepted and that there is nothing wrong with their behaviour. This feeling would encourage them to live the life they are leading without considering changing it." These are the words of someone who rightly divides the word of truth. It's as if we are saying I surrender to their actions by our very conduct. Hope this clarifies a bit.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Gay Weddings/Marriages & Raising Kids
« on: June 14, 2013, 11:44:46 PM »
Hey Rem, I agree with what you've said, but can I just explain one thing.
Isn't there a limit to that verse? Those saints who came before us are a manifestation that, to this verse there's a limit. Take Daniel for example from the OT, a law was passed by King Darius that whoever petitions any god or man for thirty days other than the king, they would be cast into the lions den. Daniel prayed to God. What about the times when the rulers prohibited the Apostles from speaking of the name of Christ in the NT? These Holy Apostles spoke out saying, "But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard” - Acts 4:19-20. The countless lives of those Saints who were persecuted and died because of a law that was passed against the law of God, that is to worship idols, and they held onto their God. This law in this age doesn't make it any different. The command of God that says 'you shall have no other gods before Me' is not greater than His law on forbidding homosexuality ...they all come from His precious mouth, they might have different visible consequences but they are all the precepts of God.
I do see where you're coming from mabsoota. Can I try to understand something, isn't going to these ceremony's just saying that, we are gathered together to celebrate the union of 'so and so'. Isn't that supporting something that hurts these people, rather than building them up eternally? Whether these people are Christian or not, it still hurts them in ways they can't even see. Why would we go if these people's blood are, to a degree, on our heads?
But we really shouldn't worry so much. Jesus said "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and God what belongs to God." If the law says you can't discriminate against a gay couple seeking real estate, then you can't. As long as you don't let homosexuality into your faith, no one expects you to take on the entire GLBT agenga. I think the smartest thing is to stay away from the real estate world in its entirety so you don't have to make this decision.
Isn't there a limit to that verse? Those saints who came before us are a manifestation that, to this verse there's a limit. Take Daniel for example from the OT, a law was passed by King Darius that whoever petitions any god or man for thirty days other than the king, they would be cast into the lions den. Daniel prayed to God. What about the times when the rulers prohibited the Apostles from speaking of the name of Christ in the NT? These Holy Apostles spoke out saying, "But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard” - Acts 4:19-20. The countless lives of those Saints who were persecuted and died because of a law that was passed against the law of God, that is to worship idols, and they held onto their God. This law in this age doesn't make it any different. The command of God that says 'you shall have no other gods before Me' is not greater than His law on forbidding homosexuality ...they all come from His precious mouth, they might have different visible consequences but they are all the precepts of God.
my own view (not the church's) is that if someone is not a Christian, but an atheist or another religion, and he/she is my gay friend, then i would go to the 'wedding' ceremony in support of my friend.
I don't think being gay is incompatible with being alive, any more than being a promiscious heterosexual person or a fraudulent person is incompatible with being alive. i don't boycott my promiscious heterosexual friends ceremonies, so i wouldn't for gay friends either.
I do see where you're coming from mabsoota. Can I try to understand something, isn't going to these ceremony's just saying that, we are gathered together to celebrate the union of 'so and so'. Isn't that supporting something that hurts these people, rather than building them up eternally? Whether these people are Christian or not, it still hurts them in ways they can't even see. Why would we go if these people's blood are, to a degree, on our heads?
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Gay Weddings/Marriages & Raising Kids
« on: June 14, 2013, 07:04:41 AM »
It's a shame that society has plummeted to this level, but it's not a surprise. “There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” - Proverbs 14:12
The article says the whole court case was a waste of time and the money should have been used for curing diseases. Why didn't they decide on this before they held the court case? Why did they say it in court? These things do not add up. Their minds were already made up. They place 'black' and 'gay' at the same level. All this is nothing but pure deceit Dthoxsasi.
I personally wouldn't put myself in that position to allow opportunity for any rental agreements in my own home if the law has gone to that extent. If the decision is out of our hands and rental agreements are unavoidable (which isn't the case for home owners but may be for hotel/apartment owners etc), then God still comes first. I wouldn't want to cause a person to sin. Fines and prison sentences do not hold much weight. God won't be silent on this matter.
The article says the whole court case was a waste of time and the money should have been used for curing diseases. Why didn't they decide on this before they held the court case? Why did they say it in court? These things do not add up. Their minds were already made up. They place 'black' and 'gay' at the same level. All this is nothing but pure deceit Dthoxsasi.
I personally wouldn't put myself in that position to allow opportunity for any rental agreements in my own home if the law has gone to that extent. If the decision is out of our hands and rental agreements are unavoidable (which isn't the case for home owners but may be for hotel/apartment owners etc), then God still comes first. I wouldn't want to cause a person to sin. Fines and prison sentences do not hold much weight. God won't be silent on this matter.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Gay Weddings/Marriages & Raising Kids
« on: June 14, 2013, 01:23:53 AM »
Lord have mercy. It's such a sad thing that it is currently legal in a few countries. In the words of Pope Shenouda III in his talk on Homosexuality, "If we [speaking to the pastors of the Church of England] make it [homosexuality] legal, it would be a disaster." How true that is... its fruit will be grievous.
I haven't read any official document in Coptic Orthodox writings personally on a way of raising children opposing such an unnatural thing. But if you bring what the Church teaches to their level, it's effective. If the children ask questions about homosexual people, or you see them looking at them, then speak with the children, or simply bring it up casually into a conversation if it's relevant and see what they think. Ensure you observe whether they are ready for a discussion or just a sentence at their age. Ask questions to bring out the answer from them first. For example, is this right by God, how was marriage originally created, Who created marriage and so on. Make sure you state that marriage did not simply emerge into the concept it is because of 'chance' or the 'opinion of people'. The heterosexual union of a man and a woman is consistent with how nature is set and created by God. Anything other than that is unnatural, abnormal and shameful. Marriage was never initially the union of the same-sex and such a union won't ever be accepted by our Church. You can extend points from there if need be.
If a country's laws are against the Law of God then God always comes first. Be patriotic with laws that are not against God.
I doubt a priest will go. If a priest isn't likely to go to some receptions because of how the wedding is celebrated after, then why would they attend a homosexual 'wedding ceremony'. It would be okay if they don't attend. I don't know what their response would be, but wouldn't the people be embarrassed to invite a servant of God to such a ceremony.
I haven't read any official document in Coptic Orthodox writings personally on a way of raising children opposing such an unnatural thing. But if you bring what the Church teaches to their level, it's effective. If the children ask questions about homosexual people, or you see them looking at them, then speak with the children, or simply bring it up casually into a conversation if it's relevant and see what they think. Ensure you observe whether they are ready for a discussion or just a sentence at their age. Ask questions to bring out the answer from them first. For example, is this right by God, how was marriage originally created, Who created marriage and so on. Make sure you state that marriage did not simply emerge into the concept it is because of 'chance' or the 'opinion of people'. The heterosexual union of a man and a woman is consistent with how nature is set and created by God. Anything other than that is unnatural, abnormal and shameful. Marriage was never initially the union of the same-sex and such a union won't ever be accepted by our Church. You can extend points from there if need be.
If a country's laws are against the Law of God then God always comes first. Be patriotic with laws that are not against God.
I doubt a priest will go. If a priest isn't likely to go to some receptions because of how the wedding is celebrated after, then why would they attend a homosexual 'wedding ceremony'. It would be okay if they don't attend. I don't know what their response would be, but wouldn't the people be embarrassed to invite a servant of God to such a ceremony.
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Faith Issues / Re: Preparation for Holy Communion
« on: May 31, 2013, 08:59:35 AM »So, no... I think the reason ppl weren't replying was not because of huge prayer rules, but of non-existent ones!
Christ is risen,
qawe, there are these prayer rules... Vespers, Psalmody Praises, Matins... along with the Agpeya and personal prayers of repentance, and trying to keep the night/day before Holy Communion consecrated to God. Not only that, but also the prayers on the way to Church and the Liturgy itself is preparation.
No confession is required.
It is strongly recommended that one confess once every 4-6 weeks, but failure to do so will not prevent Holy Communion - it is possible to receive Holy Communion despite never having confessed in your life. Some people confess once a year or even more infrequently and regularly receive Holy Communion weekly.
I would be worried, even fearful, if we approach Holy Communion without repentance and confession... unless of dire circumstances. Just because people approach the Mysteries this way, doesn't make it what the Church teaches.
These verses come to mind, "Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world." - 1 Cor. 11:27-32
People are weak, get sick and/or die (no exaggeration) because of inattentiveness towards repentance and confession, lack of reconciliation with others, and lack of faith in the Body and Blood of Christ before approaching these Mysteries. I tremble at this.
The Church teaches that we shouldn't approach the Eucharist if we're 40 days without confession, or as advised by a person's confession Father.
To quote something a priest once said, "Approaching Holy Communion without confession, is like dirty clothes being ironed. The dirt is still there." We can't have true reconciliation with God through this Sacrament with our sins tying us down.
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Personal Issues / Re: Personal Sensitive Issue, I need your help please, I can't sleep
« on: May 31, 2013, 06:42:10 AM »They're works are amazing! I can't believe who cannot read them... I envy the strong that could read all their works and still remain a theist.... because he or she will learn so much and be so opened and still be true.
There's no problem reading anything by those writers.
"Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful..." - Psalm 1:1
^There's the problem...
Their 'knowledge' is not the best. Learn from people who are wiser than the world, like Christ and the Saints for example. Learning, being open and true doesn't come from Atheist sources... there are other ways.
You can learn through prayer and Orthodox books, open yourself through God, be true by believing what God has already done in your life.
Reading writings such as these are only for a few who are given their duty and ability by God.
So as R.O said, 'no', please do not read them.
(sorry this is off-topic, just thought this needed to be addressed).
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Faith Issues / Re: What is the difference between Praying Aloud and Praying in Silence
« on: May 13, 2013, 07:55:46 AM »The fathers say you need to pray mentally before you pray in spirit. You have to pray enough aloud to pray in silence. If I cannot walk properly why do I ask about flying? Pride!!
So true.
It's okay to ask about things in the spiritual path binC
, it's one of the ways we learn.P.S. I didn't mention in my last post how that excerpt is connected to praying aloud (unless it already made sense
). When we are praying, the evil one is also listening to our prayers and tries to meddle with the things we pray for or about. Try to be attentive to pray your personal prayers within yourself, but also if it's a bit hard at first, let it not prevent you from pouring your heart to God. That's a difference between praying aloud and in silence.
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Faith Issues / Re: What is the difference between Praying Aloud and Praying in Silence
« on: May 12, 2013, 12:40:06 AM »
Christ is risen!
I came across something connected to praying aloud in an Eastern Orthodox book titled 'The Scent of Holiness' by Constantina Palmer. Their belief on this topic is in accordance with the Oriental Orthodox Churches.
“Make the sign of the cross, Constantina,” Sister Thekla calmly suggested. “Why?” I asked in bewilderment. “Because you are very excited and the devil sees everything,” she said simply. I made the sign of the cross and struggled to better contain my enthusiasm. I had heard of this before— not expressing your emotions too outwardly so as not to give the evil one more ground than he needs in tempting you. But I must say, this did strike me as a little odd at first. However, it is more spiritually prudent to be measured when expressing any outward signs of emotion. This way the evil one has less ammunition, since he can only judge our thoughts and feelings based on what we externally reveal to him. He can neither see the future nor read our thoughts. Abba Arsenios describes it in this way: “The unclean spirits are capable of understanding the quality of our thoughts and logismoi (thoughts) not because they can penetrate into the soul, but rather because they carefully observe certain of our outward expressions or bodily movements.” And so temperance in displaying sadness, anger, frustration, hurt, and even enthusiasm guards us against the evil one’s wiles and temptations."
We obviously pray aloud in the Church services, Agpeya Prayers and personal prayers, and this is all good, and it helps with praying in silence.
The difference: “Silence is a mystery of the age to come, but words are instruments of this world.” - St Isaac the Syrian
Application: Try to use them at the time they are needed.
I came across something connected to praying aloud in an Eastern Orthodox book titled 'The Scent of Holiness' by Constantina Palmer. Their belief on this topic is in accordance with the Oriental Orthodox Churches.
“Make the sign of the cross, Constantina,” Sister Thekla calmly suggested. “Why?” I asked in bewilderment. “Because you are very excited and the devil sees everything,” she said simply. I made the sign of the cross and struggled to better contain my enthusiasm. I had heard of this before— not expressing your emotions too outwardly so as not to give the evil one more ground than he needs in tempting you. But I must say, this did strike me as a little odd at first. However, it is more spiritually prudent to be measured when expressing any outward signs of emotion. This way the evil one has less ammunition, since he can only judge our thoughts and feelings based on what we externally reveal to him. He can neither see the future nor read our thoughts. Abba Arsenios describes it in this way: “The unclean spirits are capable of understanding the quality of our thoughts and logismoi (thoughts) not because they can penetrate into the soul, but rather because they carefully observe certain of our outward expressions or bodily movements.” And so temperance in displaying sadness, anger, frustration, hurt, and even enthusiasm guards us against the evil one’s wiles and temptations."
We obviously pray aloud in the Church services, Agpeya Prayers and personal prayers, and this is all good, and it helps with praying in silence.
The difference: “Silence is a mystery of the age to come, but words are instruments of this world.” - St Isaac the Syrian
Application: Try to use them at the time they are needed.
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Personal Issues / Re: When do we talk?
« on: April 26, 2013, 06:37:42 AM »
"And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh." - Jude 1:23
When I read your post, this verse loudly stood out. Speak to your colleague as if you were talking to your close brother. He is created in God's image, yet it may be a little marred (as we all are to some degree). Speak giving milk and not solid food; to their level. Speak in love and wisdom. Before you talk to him, if you decide to, pray asking God to speak through you because He knows the depths of the person and can get through to him. You might even be surprised that he needed a hand in life. It's worth the try.
Praying for this.
When I read your post, this verse loudly stood out. Speak to your colleague as if you were talking to your close brother. He is created in God's image, yet it may be a little marred (as we all are to some degree). Speak giving milk and not solid food; to their level. Speak in love and wisdom. Before you talk to him, if you decide to, pray asking God to speak through you because He knows the depths of the person and can get through to him. You might even be surprised that he needed a hand in life. It's worth the try.
Praying for this.
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Personal Issues / Re: After 2 years.
« on: April 21, 2013, 08:10:52 AM »I cried reading your post.
I also wept reading it CS.
Have you flicked through the Psalms? King David himself felt this. He felt abandonment by people and from God at times. He experienced disappointment from circumstances in his life. He fell in sin and cried to God even though at first he felt like God didn't hear him. I think it was the blessed Augustine who said that the psalms are the voice of the human soul.
A prayer you can ask God daily is to soften your heart to want to go back to Him.
God knows the frailty of our nature and is merciful towards it. He knows what you're going through. The chances aren't over... in His justice He is merciful and in His mercy He is just.
Since it's the fast, ask God to restore you back to the way you were, or to raise you up... hold onto the hope of your resurrection.
Praying for you
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Hymns Discussion / Re: Stand with the fear of God.... From the mouth of.....
« on: March 20, 2013, 06:41:57 AM »
I have a recording in Arabic. Feel free to pm your email and I'll be glad to send it.
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Faith Issues / Re: Same sex marriage laws
« on: November 14, 2012, 09:05:13 AM »
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We, ourselves, grew up with many artificial pressures from society. From thoughts introduced to us, to deeds we saw around us that weren't acceptable by God. We grew up with society trying to drill in our heads that the latest materialistic whatever was okay, that dating was okay, that we all have the same God, etc. An era that is possibly destructible than its previous generation.
How did we live to go through it? Through a relationship with God. Through God's Word. Through the Church. Through the servants of the Church. Through the spiritual guidance and advice of our parents. When the world is shaken by the Truth, it falls in shame.
Keep the next generations close to these firm pillars and, instead of your children being influenced by the world, your children will be able to be influential on the world.
Do not be dismayed, because when the ways of society and the world (for "...the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one." - 1 John 5:19) is put up against the Word of God and what is acceptable by the Orthodox Church, the Truth holds an immensely strong grasp on the nourished Spirit.
We, ourselves, grew up with many artificial pressures from society. From thoughts introduced to us, to deeds we saw around us that weren't acceptable by God. We grew up with society trying to drill in our heads that the latest materialistic whatever was okay, that dating was okay, that we all have the same God, etc. An era that is possibly destructible than its previous generation.
How did we live to go through it? Through a relationship with God. Through God's Word. Through the Church. Through the servants of the Church. Through the spiritual guidance and advice of our parents. When the world is shaken by the Truth, it falls in shame.
Keep the next generations close to these firm pillars and, instead of your children being influenced by the world, your children will be able to be influential on the world.
Do not be dismayed, because when the ways of society and the world (for "...the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one." - 1 John 5:19) is put up against the Word of God and what is acceptable by the Orthodox Church, the Truth holds an immensely strong grasp on the nourished Spirit.
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Faith Issues / Re: Worldly Success
« on: November 12, 2012, 07:56:37 AM »
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Consider school/uni/college/work as talents given by God to you. Being faithful in them to the best of our ability is our duty as servants. This way whilst doing them we keep in mind that we must pay an account of our stewardship on the last day. It prepares one for death daily.
As for wanting to get in... do your part and ask God to intervene. Trust He will, because He does.
I think our culture caring too much about these things can be excused by the verse "you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things." - Matt. 25:23
My question is: How do I keep that balance of motivation to succeed, while keeping in mind that we can die any second? In the end, is it truly worth all the stress and anxiety? How do I keep that fire in my heart for God while still succeeding?
Consider school/uni/college/work as talents given by God to you. Being faithful in them to the best of our ability is our duty as servants. This way whilst doing them we keep in mind that we must pay an account of our stewardship on the last day. It prepares one for death daily.
So I'm in the process of finishing my pre-requisites for pharmacy school, and I want to get in BADLY. I feel like this great desire is starting to become a sin. It's literally always on my mind, and it makes me very anxious/eager at times. I'm burning with motivation.
As for wanting to get in... do your part and ask God to intervene. Trust He will, because He does.
As you all know, Egyptians have that mindset that their child has to be the best in everything, but I'm starting to think that it's not really the Christian way. I even talked to my priest today, and he said he will not ordain me subdeacon until I get accepted into a pharmacy school (don't think he was joking). Sometimes I feel like he and my parents care way too much about my worldly success, and not enough of about what's most important. Everytime I go to study, I tell myself that I'm doing for God, and to glorify His name, but is that true?
I think our culture caring too much about these things can be excused by the verse "you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things." - Matt. 25:23
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: I feel like an Orthodox in my church among Protestants
« on: October 11, 2012, 06:27:27 AM »Hello Everyone,
I'm sorry to ressurect an older topic, but I'd like to do something proactive about this problem instead of just discussing it on a message board.
First of all, let me say that I'm happy to see that most of the posters here share my concerns about this topic and recognize why this is wrong and dangerous. I am working on composing a report on these activities as well as a theological refutation of the heresies which inform it and sending it to our bishops. I don't want the youth who will become the next generation of priests to grow up thinking this is an acceptable part of Orthodox practice. Maybe those of us who are concerned about this should form some kind of fellowship or at least start a petition to send to our bishops. What do you think?
Pray For My Weakness,
AN
"Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy" - Our dear H.H. Pope Shenouda III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpA3T2xFabw&list=UUlF1D0Cx0CpqGaZejBTSs5A&index=6&feature=plcp
He has your back
If you would like, it may be helpful if you may quote him in your report
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Prayer Requests / Re: H.H. Abune Paulose of Ethiopia Has Reposed
« on: August 16, 2012, 06:52:24 AM »
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Amen
May his prayers be with us all and may his memory be eternal!
Amen
