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1
Introductions / Re: God is so Good
« on: March 01, 2012, 08:27:31 AM »God bless, i'm very grateful to be able to be a part of the online community here. I've been reading and studying a lot about Catholic and Orthodox Churches and early Church history for the past year, and i'm pretty interested in getting involved we the Coptic Orthodox Church. I have been a protestant Christian my whole life without even realizing it up until last year. I'm very excited about getting a chance to congregate with an great Apostolic Church established for 2000 years. Happy to be here on Tasbeha (not sure what the title means, sorry) Thanks! God bless
Welcome Welcome. Being an Ex-Protestant myself, I must say I know exactly what you are going through. Where abouts you from?
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Coptic Catholics
« on: February 20, 2012, 08:22:45 PM »In case you had any doubts, look at this video from the same Fr. Yohanna Fawzy from the other link. They are "consecrating" an altar in Naga Razeek, Assuit. Notice all the priests, deacons and nuns consecrating the altar and not the bishop while the deacons are singing Khen Evran. It's sad actually. Although I am not a psychologist or anthropological psychologist, I would diagnosis the Coptic Catholic Church with dissociative fugue disorder. It is defined as "physical desertion of familiar surroundings and experience of impaired recall of the past. This may lead to confusion about actual identity and the assumption of a new identity" The Coptic Catholics have deserted any Roman familiarity, experienced no recall of their own past, assumed the Coptic Orthodox identity and now are slightly deserting Coptic Orthodox identity for something else (or something odd). You'll see what I mean in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKT5GRRBpsI&feature=BFa&list=UUazCgl_8TIEKjpILEj1p52w&lf=plcp
I think you will find the Bishop was the one at the start of the Video with the White Hat, as that is the vestments of the Eastern Rite Catholics. I think he had already concecrated the altar, as to what then the other people are doing, I have no idea.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Praying in Coptic -- praying without understanding
« on: February 20, 2012, 08:17:09 PM »And also this;What do we have to do with the Ukranians.
Other:
Apostolic Exarchate in France, Benelux and Switzerland for the Ukrainians
Oujai
Is the Coptic Orthodox faith ONLY exclusive to Egyptians? Can this faith be practiced outside of Egypt, or does someone have to learn Coptic/Arabic to actually understand the liturgy, or make full use of it?
No it is not exclusive to Egyptians, I am not Egyptian and I feel very welcome in the Coptic Orthodox Church. I also understand quite a bit of the Divine Liturgy, although I am still learning.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Theosis (again!!)
« on: February 17, 2012, 10:03:54 PM »
Howdy,
Was talking to a friend and he said theosis is:
"Becoming God, Except in his Essence".
Now would that not mean that you don't become God, hence the statement you become God makes no sense>?
Was talking to a friend and he said theosis is:
"Becoming God, Except in his Essence".
Now would that not mean that you don't become God, hence the statement you become God makes no sense>?
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Praying in Coptic -- praying without understanding
« on: February 17, 2012, 09:22:57 PM »i also did not grow up speaking arabic or coptic, and although i love these languages (certainly i love them much more than i speak them!), i don't think it's right to expect my friends to love them as much as i do.
i would like to ask lanyknight1990, what was / is yr background? were u Christian before u became orthodox?
what do people say when u say u r orthodox?
(u can answer me by personal message if u don't want to distract from the topic of the conversation).
i usually get a funny look from west europeans people and most asians, and an understanding nod from north and east africans.
maybe i should start a thread about 'funny comments i have had about my faith and how to deal with them'. (or someone else could start it if they find it interesting)
My Family is of British Descent, living in Australia. I was raised Pentecostal/New-Age Protestant.
Also some of my pentecostal friends believed I got a "demon", Others believe I stopped believing in Relationship with God, Others believe I worship st mary, others believe I am just another type of Christian. Depends who you ask really. Alot think im now greek, as most have never heard of the Oriental orthodox Church.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Praying in Coptic -- praying without understanding
« on: February 17, 2012, 07:54:16 PM »i also did not grow up speaking arabic or coptic, and although i love these languages (certainly i love them much more than i speak them!), i don't think it's right to expect my friends to love them as much as i do.
i would like to ask lanyknight1990, what was / is yr background? were u Christian before u became orthodox?
what do people say when u say u r orthodox?
(u can answer me by personal message if u don't want to distract from the topic of the conversation).
i usually get a funny look from west europeans people and most asians, and an understanding nod from north and east africans.
maybe i should start a thread about 'funny comments i have had about my faith and how to deal with them'. (or someone else could start it if they find it interesting)
My Family is of British Descent, living in Australia. I was raised Pentecostal/New-Age Protestant.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Praying in Coptic -- praying without understanding
« on: February 17, 2012, 08:19:59 AM »
Well, as I stated most Coptic Churches in Australia Pray in English, what happens elsewhere Is out of my control. And yes far less would convert in the West if the language was not in the language of the land. Its why I am in the Coptic Orthodox Mission in Australia, Mission is the centre of Who I am.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / What Do you Love Most about the Oriental Orthodox Church?
« on: February 17, 2012, 08:10:25 AM »
Hey all, I started this thread on a different forum once, but am Interested in hearing your thoughts. What do you love most about the Oriental orthodox Church?
For me, The Humility of the leadership and the Monastics.
For me, The Humility of the leadership and the Monastics.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Praying in Coptic -- praying without understanding
« on: February 17, 2012, 07:58:37 AM »
Where then, Zoxsasi, would you put those migrants who cannot even speak English? Should they be denied Services in Their language of Choice. In My diocese (The Diocese of Sydney), Every Coptic church i know of has an English Liturgy in the weekly cycle of prayers. However whist there are some Migrants in the Church in the west I believe there Should be Arabic Liturgies for them also.
Btw, there have been saints who couldnt communicate with those they prayed with at all, Such as a recent Ethiopian Monk who walked to Egypt to stay at St Anthony's Monastery. I cannot remember the name of this holy man, nor if he is officially a saint yet, but I remember reading his biography.
Even if the Church spoke Absolutely no English there would still be converts, For the Church is the Truth and life.
Btw, there have been saints who couldnt communicate with those they prayed with at all, Such as a recent Ethiopian Monk who walked to Egypt to stay at St Anthony's Monastery. I cannot remember the name of this holy man, nor if he is officially a saint yet, but I remember reading his biography.
Even if the Church spoke Absolutely no English there would still be converts, For the Church is the Truth and life.
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Random Issues / Re: Coptic Orthodox Study Bible
« on: February 17, 2012, 03:11:02 AM »
This sounds like a really good idea, Maybe even Chuck in a bunch of Desert Fathers sayings.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: His Holiness Pope Shenouda III on the Topic of Man's Deification
« on: February 17, 2012, 02:47:57 AM »whats wrong with deification or theosis? Both terms mean becoming like God...and even when St. Athanasius says "God became man so that mad can become gods" it didn't mean we become God but become sanctified through grace, what God is by nature. How is this a hard concept to understand?
From my reading it was Maximus the Confessor who first defined the process as "theosis". Im not against becoming Holier and being in Communion with God, and Being in Relationship with him, what I am a bit uneasy with it is the systematic Defining of the THeosis process, Hence why I am looking into it from an Oriental Perspective. Up until Very recently no Oriental Father used the term Theosis, as this is the terminology of the Eastern Orthodox, not the Oriental Orthodox. THat doesn't make it wrong nessessarily
I wish to read His Holiness Pope Shenouda's Thoughts on the subject, as I have already read the eastern Orthodox thoughts.
That is a well rounded approach lankyknight, but please be advised that HH's book is not necessarily the most widely accepted view on the subject (even from an Oriental position). Our own church fathers undeniably spoke about theosis, not knock it down. No disrespect to HH at all.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Praying in Coptic -- praying without understanding
« on: February 17, 2012, 02:43:33 AM »
The Issue for me isnt praying in Coptic or English. I want to pray in English. But Im more in the middle, Rather then "All Coptic" or "all english"
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: His Holiness Pope Shenouda III on the Topic of Man's Deification
« on: February 17, 2012, 02:22:25 AM »whats wrong with deification or theosis? Both terms mean becoming like God...and even when St. Athanasius says "God became man so that mad can become gods" it didn't mean we become God but become sanctified through grace, what God is by nature. How is this a hard concept to understand?
I wish to read His Holiness Pope Shenouda's Thoughts on the subject, as I have already read the eastern Orthodox thoughts.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Praying in Coptic -- praying without understanding
« on: February 16, 2012, 05:56:12 PM »Why will the Church crumble if people worship in English? That doesn't make any sense.
I agree Father,
The Church will not crumble if people pray in English, but it won't crumble either if people pray in Coptic. The Church is the Church, her beauty remains regardless of the language being prayed in. However I do love the fact that the Coptic Church prays in the Majority of the Speakers, as I have noticed in every single Coptic Church I myself have been in.
Also, as someone meantioned before about them not joining heresy, Those that go along to Protestant churches, recieve sacraments there, are under Automatic Excommunication. there is no simpler way to put it. Those that just go there to jump around, well thats between them and their confession father. I myself sometimes go to Christian Rock concerts on a sunday night at hillsong, and its certainly not Church. But its nonetheless fun. Doesn't mean i "Bring" Hillsong back with me. I do have a dream to write true Orthodox hymns in Contemporary style one day, but teh Liturgy itself has to remain untouched.
Please pray for me.
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Coptic Orthodox Church / Re: Praying in Coptic -- praying without understanding
« on: February 16, 2012, 07:32:52 AM »
Zoxasi,
Firstly, Who are you to say who can and cannot stay in the UK? People have the right to pray in whatever language they want to, and some people who are citizens in the West still wish to pray in Arabic or Coptic.
Secondly, Coptic people dont leave the church because of the failures of the Church, but rather because they have turned to heretical teachings. People have always left the Church, Nestorius, Apollinus, Arius. The list goes on and on. As for those who come back bring protestantism with them, what I have noticed is the returning orthodox are actually more strict against heresy then sometimes those who never left the Church.
Thirdly, I believe its up to the Local churches, and the Bishop of the Diocese as to which language is prayed in. If you make it totally english some people WILL NOT understand, as some of the older migrants cannot speak the new Language of the land. So either way somebody misses out.
Honestly If people are going to leave the Church over language, Let them. There are alot harder issues in Orthodoxy then what language one prays in. When I was a new convert If I had been insisted to pray in Arabic I would of left the Church and joined a different orthodox church. But being in an English Speaking Parish I have learnt that even if the Synod said no more english I would remain Oriental Orthodox. Why? because I reject Chalcedon, and will be buried Oriental Orthodox. those that leave the Church dont have that belief, or they wouldnt go to heresy.
please pray for me, as i am a sinner.
Firstly, Who are you to say who can and cannot stay in the UK? People have the right to pray in whatever language they want to, and some people who are citizens in the West still wish to pray in Arabic or Coptic.
Secondly, Coptic people dont leave the church because of the failures of the Church, but rather because they have turned to heretical teachings. People have always left the Church, Nestorius, Apollinus, Arius. The list goes on and on. As for those who come back bring protestantism with them, what I have noticed is the returning orthodox are actually more strict against heresy then sometimes those who never left the Church.
Thirdly, I believe its up to the Local churches, and the Bishop of the Diocese as to which language is prayed in. If you make it totally english some people WILL NOT understand, as some of the older migrants cannot speak the new Language of the land. So either way somebody misses out.
Honestly If people are going to leave the Church over language, Let them. There are alot harder issues in Orthodoxy then what language one prays in. When I was a new convert If I had been insisted to pray in Arabic I would of left the Church and joined a different orthodox church. But being in an English Speaking Parish I have learnt that even if the Synod said no more english I would remain Oriental Orthodox. Why? because I reject Chalcedon, and will be buried Oriental Orthodox. those that leave the Church dont have that belief, or they wouldnt go to heresy.
please pray for me, as i am a sinner.
