Protestant Concerts

[Ioannes]

If you desire music that glorifies worldly living, then you do not desire God. If you desire music that puts God under your feet and attacks His church, then you do not desire God. It is that simple.

Why do you desire to be a part of something that is against truth?

[Christs' servant]

I should've been more clear.

Whenever there's tasbeha in church and I invite most of my friends to come they adamantly refuse, they say they don't 'enjoy it'. I think that's partially because we have become so accustomed to praising with guitars and pianos playing in the background. So now most youth are going to Protestant concerts and, simply deem it as praising God

But I think you're 100% correct in what you say. Our problem is that we don't even understand Orthodoxy, let alone practice it.

[Ioannes]

I should've been more clear.

Whenever there's tasbeha in church and I invite most of my friends to come they adamantly refuse, they say they don't 'enjoy it'. I think that's partially because we have become so accustomed to praising with guitars and pianos playing in the background. So now most youth are going to Protestant concerts and, simply deem it as praising God

But I think you're 100% correct in what you say. Our problem is that we don't even understand Orthodoxy, let alone practice it.

Because our post modern society is more concerned with their own self than with God. This is acceptable unto God and you can learn the whole theology of the church from it. St Hippolytus says that in the end, the Psalmody will not be sung by Christians any longer.

[Christs' servant]

Ioannes,

I didn't see that link at first, but I think it clicked now. Thanks clearing it up. 

[geomike]

I have noticed this problem with the youth also. The reason why we don't have guitars or drums in church playing is because we want to focus more on the words not on the music. We don't want to fall into the trick of just getting into the music, we want to actually mean the words we say and therefore praise God.

[Andrew]

The problem is people are lukewarm. They don't want to be so bad as to go to a concert that has cursing, drinking, smoking, etc. so instead they go to a concert they can enjoy without all those things. However, few are willing to go to another church service, a liturgy on Sunday is good enough.

[Ioannes]

Protestantism is about the self, therefore protestant worship is self worship. They create a god they are comfortable with. They believe what they want Christianity to be NOT what Christianity is. This is lawlessness which Christ speaks of in Mt 7:22

[geomike]

Protestantism is about the self, therefore protestant worship is self worship. They create a god they are comfortable with. They believe what they want Christianity to be NOT what Christianity is. This is lawlessness which Christ speaks of in Mt 7:22

They also make the Bible what they want it to be. You know they almost took out the book of Hebrews because it talked about priesthood and they don't agree with it? It's already enough they took out the Deutrocanonical Books.

[Andrew]

Christ's Servant brings up an important point: The youth think tasbeha is boring.

I think there are a few reasons why tasbeha is "boring" (this is in no particular order):

1) Sin - it is hard to genuinely praise God without having repented. Your mind constantly wanders and your heart is heavy because it is burdened with guilt and shame.

2) Language - when we pray more than half the hymns in Coptic and no one understands, we are missing the point and not benefiting.

3) Understanding - lack of knowledge concerning the hymns (what they refer to, their purpose, the progression, etc.) limits how deep one can go into the praises.

4) "Hyphy" tasbehas - when the cymbals are played fast, the pitch is high, someone is doing a solo, the volume is up, everyone is bobbin' their heads, etc., something is wrong. We no longer have an argument against the Protestant concert, if we are turning tasbeha into a concert. It should be prayed calmly, the cymbals should be played humbly, no one voice should stand out and we should unite to glorify God. When this is not the case - we will judge one tasbeha as being a "good" one because "folan" was playing the cymbals tight and we said all the cool hymns. . .

5) Lack of preparation - going to asheya before, avoiding small talk, praying the agbeya, etc., all need to be done to prepare one's mind and clear it from the thoughts of the world.

6) Lack of Habituation - You don't like something that is good for you after doing it once. In the same way that any overweight person who goes to the gym hates his life after the first workout, the young kid who never prayed a tasbeha before will hate life after it. But after doing it for a while he will see the fruits. As the fat man loses weight and feels good about himself, the person who continues praying tasbeha will forget himself and focus on God.

7) Role-models - Where are they? Kids want to see the cool servant at tasbeha but all they see is old uncles and the same few chanters who are at church for every occasion. There is no one to connect with. It looks like tasbeha is either for old people or saints.

Please add anything else or correct any problems.

[Ioannes]

Protestantism is about the self, therefore protestant worship is self worship. They create a god they are comfortable with. They believe what they want Christianity to be NOT what Christianity is. This is lawlessness which Christ speaks of in Mt 7:22

They also make the Bible what they want it to be. You know they almost took out the book of Hebrews because it talked about priesthood and they don't agree with it? It's already enough they took out the Deutrocanonical Books.

Luther also removed Revelations and St James. He referred to James as "The Epistle of Straw". Oddly enough Luther claimed "we are all priests in the congregation of the Lord" Korah in Numbers 16 claimed that "we are all holy in the congregation of the Lord". Why did God kill korah and his followers but accept Luthers protest?

[Christs' servant]

Christ's Servant brings up an important point: The youth think tasbeha is boring.

I think there are a few reasons why tasbeha is "boring" (this is in no particular order):

1) Sin - it is hard to genuinely praise God without having repented. Your mind constantly wanders and your heart is heavy because it is burdened with guilt and shame.

2) Language - when we pray more than half the hymns in Coptic and no one understands, we are missing the point and not benefiting.

3) Understanding - lack of knowledge concerning the hymns (what they refer to, their purpose, the progression, etc.) limits how deep one can go into the praises.

4) "Hyphy" tasbehas - when the cymbals are played fast, the pitch is high, someone is doing a solo, the volume is up, everyone is bobbin' their heads, etc., something is wrong. We no longer have an argument against the Protestant concert, if we are turning tasbeha into a concert. It should be prayed calmly, the cymbals should be played humbly, no one voice should stand out and we should unite to glorify God. When this is not the case - we will judge one tasbeha as being a "good" one because "folan" was playing the cymbals tight and we said all the cool hymns. . .

5) Lack of preparation - going to asheya before, avoiding small talk, praying the agbeya, etc., all need to be done to prepare one's mind and clear it from the thoughts of the world.

6) Lack of Habituation - You don't like something that is good for you after doing it once. In the same way that any overweight person who goes to the gym hates his life after the first workout, the young kid who never prayed a tasbeha before will hate life after it. But after doing it for a while he will see the fruits. As the fat man loses weight and feels good about himself, the person who continues praying tasbeha will forget himself and focus on God.

7) Role-models - Where are they? Kids want to see the cool servant at tasbeha but all they see is old uncles and the same few chanters who are at church for every occasion. There is no one to connect with. It looks like tasbeha is either for old people or saints.

Please add anything else or correct any problems.

Andrew,

You hit the nail on the head!! Am I want to always remember these great points. However, the last two points struck me the most!

[user157]

I do not appreciate the slander towards people who may not be willfully blind. They have some of the best music is of course written by them. They have talents given by god that u do not have. God wants emotion. He wants us to praise with all our heart. So don't condemn emotion in praising god. Whether Protestantism is acceptable in the eyes of god does not matter for you perhaps but it asks the question do u or i have a relationship with god?
If we do we would desire their salvation and pray for them to become orthodox if necessary but why should we slander them so they convert just out of fear and feelings of worthlessness. It is gods job to draw people to himself I responded through my iPhone which is why I am not correcting or adding more lol

[imikhail]

I do not appreciate the slander towards people who may not be willfully blind. They have some of the best music is of course written by them. They have talents given by god that u do not have. God wants emotion. He wants us to praise with all our heart. So don't condemn emotion in praising god. Whether Protestantism is acceptable in the eyes of god does not matter for you perhaps but it asks the question do u or i have a relationship with god?
If we do we would desire their salvation and pray for them to become orthodox if necessary but why should we slander them so they convert just out of fear and feelings of worthlessness. It is gods job to draw people to himself I responded through my iPhone which is why I am not correcting or adding more lol

I wonder why you write God as "god".

Why do u call explanation of heretic beliefs as slandering?

It is our responsibility as Orthodox to show the fallacy of the Protestant teachings and its various heresies. This way Orthodox people who may not know the errancy of Protestantism are forewarned.

[user157]

Are u a Jew that u need to correct me like this?  Others do it do I did it I do not worry that God judges me and I do not want to have obsessive compulsive disorder I do not see that any of u do enough mission work which is why I think u do not have permission to judge. Also if u do mission work to make others imitate u u must seem like a normal human being who can have other regular jobs. Why are u ashamed of ur faith?

[user157]

If the purpose of God sending His Son into the world was out of love and to save the world, would he put obstacles to love such as making it necessary to baptise and take of the sacraments? I would say yes if we were living in the time of the apostles where their sound had gone through all the earth and the ends of the world for it was logical. When Jesus was asked by the pharisees what authority do you have to preach, he asked what authority did John have knowing the people knew of his miraculous birth. Also Jesus said if you do not believe me believe me for the sake of the works themselves.. and in the acts of the apostles the disciples asked that by stretching out your hand to heal and do other works that they may believe