Hey there

[GabrielYakub]

Hey there,

               I thought I'd go ahead and formally introduce myself on this forum as i see no need to be anonymous anylonger, since I'll essentially have the same opinions and generally no concerns expressing them if I pumped into anyone of you on the street.

My name is gabriel yakub yet some of you may know me as copticyouth86 or learn2dance. I'm from Sydney Australia and was raised in the coptic church. I've attended two coptic schools, two catholic schools and one public school - not in that order-. I'm studying a bachelor of audio production and I'm a student and teacher of vocal training.

Although I attend church (youth meeting), bible study, and recently a short course in patrology at Sydney's coptic theological college on a weekly basis, I am a not a believer (in God). Obviously I don't think people should necissarily have to  leave thier community (nor disregard their heritage for that matter) because they don't share the same beliefs anymore. I think the more we educate ourselves and discuss with eachother the more we build an understanding of the people around us, and through that may come appreciation (we hope).

I hope I've provided some insight into the bane of some of your expreinces on this forum, that is me. For thos who probably know me or of me outside this forum Im always open for a nice chat. I look forward to future interactions.

~Gabe

[✞TheGodChrist✞]

Welcome 

Although I attend church (youth meeting), bible study, and recently a short course in patrology at Sydney's coptic theological college on a weekly basis, I am a not a believer (in God).

If I understood correctly, this may be a problem.

We hope and pray for you, our brother.

+++

[minatasgeel]

Welcome.

[returnorthodoxy]

I am a not a believer (in God). Obviously I don't think people should necissarily have to  leave thier community (nor disregard their heritage for that matter) because they don't share the same beliefs anymore.

Thank you for your formal introduction, but I must say that it is this part of your statement which explains much of your views in the matters which we have discussed in these forums. That is why you view topics like Homosexuality as a conflict of tradition rather than a moral problem dictated to us by the most high.

You are definitely welcome to join the topics here, we are not totalitarian angry people, but I must say, that your view of "copticness" as being a heritage rather than being a church which embodies the commands of the Lord is (to me) a great cause to question much that you say.

I don't know if I should say welcome as you have always been on this site, but at least, I can say, it's good to put a background to the ideas.

ReturnOrthodoxy

[✞TheGodChrist✞]

GabrielYakub (Cy86),

If I may ask, why have you lost your faith in God?

What has led you to this point?

+++

[GabrielYakub]

Hey guys,

               I really appreciate your comments and questions as well as the pleasant welcomes.

Peter A: A couple of reasons, I do enjoy studying religion and I did mention something about education, I think it can provide an avenue in which one can understand where the other person is coming from. As my friends currently comprise of many coptic christians and as I'm rather still actively involved in the community in some ways, I find it to be rather appropriate.

The God Christ: The short of it is, overtime I became unconvinced that God existed.


~Gabe

[minatasgeel]

The God Christ: The short of it is, overtime I became unconvinced that God existed.

If "God Christ" refers to Jesus Christ, how did you come to that conclusion.
I can see and understand how people can believe that there is no 'god', a being that created all and controls all. But Jesus Christ was a true person--a human being that was witnessed to many history and not only His followers. When atheist or agnostics tried to refute Christmas, they attacked virgin birth but not the born Child's existence.

[ilovesaintmark]

There are no atheists or non-believers in God.

The three types of atheists I have experienced:

1.  The arrogant, pseudo-intellectual;
2.  The immoral, who wishes to deny God so he can placate his conscience about his sin;
3.  The angry one who thinks that God caused something to happen to him or someone around him.

They all know deep down that God exists simply because the soul knows its origin.  There conflict is not with others but rather with themselves:  it is the soul and heart vs. the brain and mouth.

In the end when we are dead there will be no doubt about any presence of God.

Your introduction explains the veiled approaches you used in other threads.  You fall into one of the above categories.

The question is:  "do you wish to stay in those categories?"

[GabrielYakub]

Minatasgeel, 'the God Christ' is the handle of one of the members I was referring to on this thread. Thank you for your understanding. Yes I think historians by consensus agree that Jesus was a person that existed 2000 or so years ago. The disputes have really been about the claims of miracles and divine intervention that are mentioned in the bible.


Ilovesaintmark:  So let me get this straight, because you believe that I have a soul that exists inside me that tells my brain God is real, I am therefore a liar and an arrogant or immoral or angry theist?

First of all, this accusation is not only unfounded but its completely insulting. Second, your claim to knowledge is based on an assertion which you have not demonstrated to have any basis in reality. So in short your argument appears invalid, unsound and rather denigrating. Not a very useful post to anyone.

~Gabe

[Μιχαὴλ Ἕνρη]

Gabriel,

Welcome. I rarely post here, but I figured it would be nice to become a better member of the community by welcoming someone else.

Also, were you ever known as "dustymoot" somewhere else online?

Mike

[Biboboy]

Agape,

I'm not sure why everyone is so hard on Gabriel here already, when he just introduced himself. Perhaps he may have turned to atheism in his quest to understand more about his life, especially since he's been involved in the Coptic church and is studying its theology.

the rest of this message may not apply to Gabriel right now, but my audience here are those who are Christians and are going too hard on Gabriel admitting his atheism:

There's nothing wrong with atheism. A lot of people go through a period of atheism (not just agnosticism, but whole-hearted atheism) in long periods of their lives. Even I've been through it, and I'm a theologian!

One of the Russian priests (who was once an atheist too) taught that atheism is a phase in a true Christian life. I agree with that assessment. In fact, I think Christians who never went through a period of atheism in their lives are self-deceived about their faith! No one can be a Christian - a follower of Christ - without being Christ-like, experiencing the sorrow, the loneliness, and the emptiness of carrying the cross. For after this emptiness, there is found the fulness of Truth; after this sorrow, there is found victory; after this loneliness, there is found Love.

People who are Christians who turn to atheism are more truer Christians when they find Christ in their atheism.

So, I think everyone here over-reacted to Gabriel's confession of atheism, and judged him, when he's probably ahead of all of us spiritually!

[✞TheGodChrist✞]

The God Christ: The short of it is, overtime I became unconvinced that God existed.

Yes I think historians by consensus agree that Jesus was a person that existed 2000 or so years ago. The disputes have really been about the claims of miracles and divine intervention that are mentioned in the bible.

Gabe,

The best way to know if God truly exists is to personally experience His guiding hand in your life. There is an enormous difference between knowing about God, and actually "knowing" God.

It is an extraordinary and miraculous thing that we mere mortals are able to live, interact, and become filled with the divine light of God.

To put it simply, "nothing else exists" when a person experiences this.

Have you tried to "know" God personally? Have you had the chance to know each Person of the Holy Trinity?

Do an hour of the Agpeya for one week. Put all your energy into it, be diligent, and do not miss any sessions. Confess that you are a sinner, devoid of any understanding. Cry out to this God, with all your might, and "spare not your throat." Pray that God grants you sheer faith within your heart.

If this God responds, if the peace of the Eternal Logos fills your heart, then you will know that there is something there...it is not just air or a wall. It is the Unknowable God who has made Himself knowable to us, weak and stupid selves we are.

This, above all else, will invalidate every qualm that you may have about miracles...

You have nothing to lose, and eternal peace to gain.

We will pray that His Will be done in your life.

✞✞✞

[returnorthodoxy]

Ok,

I would like to make it clear that's myself have also had my times of doubt, and am still going through them. To know that, all you would have to do is read my post called "Where to?" and you would figure that out. So, forgive me Gabe if I made you feel as though you were a terrible person, and that I was in some way better than you, that is not what I meant to do. I am not against you admitting atheism, I only claim it gives a background on where you are coming from.

I did not mean to judge you as a person, as if I were to do that, I would have to condemn myself for my doubts.

ReturnOrthodoxy

[Biboboy]

The God Christ: The short of it is, overtime I became unconvinced that God existed.

Yes I think historians by consensus agree that Jesus was a person that existed 2000 or so years ago. The disputes have really been about the claims of miracles and divine intervention that are mentioned in the bible.

Gabe,

The best way to know if God truly exists is to personally experience His guiding hand in your life. There is an enormous difference between knowing about God, and actually "knowing" God.

It is an extraordinary and miraculous thing that we mere mortals are able to live, interact, and become filled with the divine light of God.

To put it simply, "nothing else exists" when a person experiences this.

Have you tried to "know" God personally? Have you had the chance to know each Person of the Holy Trinity?

Do an hour of the Agpeya for one week. Put all your energy into it, be diligent, and do not miss any sessions. Confess that you are a sinner, devoid of any understanding. Cry out to this God, with all your might, and "spare not your throat." Pray that God grants you sheer faith within your heart.

If this God responds, if the peace of the Eternal Logos fills your heart, then you will know that there is something there...it is not just air or a wall. It is the Unknowable God who has made Himself knowable to us, weak and stupid selves we are.

This, above all else, will invalidate every qualm that you may have about miracles...

You have nothing to lose, and eternal peace to gain.

We will pray that His Will be done in your life.

✞✞✞

Please avoid Evangelical language in your posts. This isn't Orthodoxy AT ALL!

[✞TheGodChrist✞]

The God Christ: The short of it is, overtime I became unconvinced that God existed.

Yes I think historians by consensus agree that Jesus was a person that existed 2000 or so years ago. The disputes have really been about the claims of miracles and divine intervention that are mentioned in the bible.

Gabe,

The best way to know if God truly exists is to personally experience His guiding hand in your life. There is an enormous difference between knowing about God, and actually "knowing" God.

It is an extraordinary and miraculous thing that we mere mortals are able to live, interact, and become filled with the divine light of God.

To put it simply, "nothing else exists" when a person experiences this.

Have you tried to "know" God personally? Have you had the chance to know each Person of the Holy Trinity?

Do an hour of the Agpeya for one week. Put all your energy into it, be diligent, and do not miss any sessions. Confess that you are a sinner, devoid of any understanding. Cry out to this God, with all your might, and "spare not your throat." Pray that God grants you sheer faith within your heart.

If this God responds, if the peace of the Eternal Logos fills your heart, then you will know that there is something there...it is not just air or a wall. It is the Unknowable God who has made Himself knowable to us, weak and stupid selves we are.

This, above all else, will invalidate every qualm that you may have about miracles...

You have nothing to lose, and eternal peace to gain.

We will pray that His Will be done in your life.

✞✞✞

Please avoid Evangelical language in your posts. This isn't Orthodoxy AT ALL!

I see nothing wrong with it. Agpeya is pretty Orthodox.

✞✞✞