Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

A scathing attack on Arabic, English, and perhaps other languages (2)
  • This hymn is [coptic]wcperyn[/coptic]:
    [coptic]Wcperyn @ ke ecte ectin @ `apo geneac ic genean[/coptic] If you notice the three segments of the hymn are sung in exactly the same tune fitting the vowels onto the music... but as for:
    كما كان: هكذا يكون: من جيل إلي جيل
    Note that the second segment is musically categorically different and unequal.
    So that corrupts the whole meaning of the hymn, which basically is "as it was" is verbally and musically the same as "so it shall be" that is verbally and musically the same as "from generation to generation"...
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
  • That's another good example - I agree with you Ophadece... the tune is different.

    However, here are a few hymns where the melody remains the same and does not change from Coptic to Arabic (when sung):

    a) Tiatsoleb

    b) Ten-o-osht emefiot nem epshiri (Tasbeha before Pi-Oini enta evmi).. in arabic it sounds exactly the same melody (if not even nicer)

    c) Agios Athanatos Nai-nan - Sounds brilliant in ARabic..

    There are loads. So your "scathing" attack is a bit of an exaggeration. Let's be fair here and mature:

    Yes, I agree that with some hymns there the melody changes - but not with ALL hymns.

    I cannot imagine Agios Otheos, Golgotha, Axiass/Axioss, being sung in Arabic or English without the entire melody being changed - agreed.. but - when you use words like "scathing attack" - you are trying obviously to sensationalize a problem more than it deserves.

    When you do so, you do yourself and what you believe in a disservice.

    I agree, we should not abandon coptic, but where we can sing in English we should. The LA deacons have brilliantly done some recordings in English. I will find them and post them for you so you can appreciate how well the Tasbeha sounds in English (for some hymns).
  • Dear Zoxsasi,
    Thanks very much for your comments. You are right I used some kind of sentimental "sensalisation" as you called it, and exaggeration, but that is just to stimulate people to think. Now I think I drove people to take an opposing side to me (which you were on my side in the beginning, and now changed), so that is why I wrote in a previous post that I will refrain from adding any more posts along the line of my argument. I don't want to dispel people from singing Coptic, even though as you rightly said in hundreds of other hymns if not thousands Arabic, or English translation follows the exact same tune.
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=9903.msg121462#msg121462 date=1288262458]
    Dear Zoxsasi,
    Thanks very much for your comments. You are right I used some kind of sentimental "sensalisation" as you called it, and exaggeration, but that is just to stimulate people to think. Now I think I drove people to take an opposing side to me (which you were on my side in the beginning, and now changed), so that is why I wrote in a previous post that I will refrain from adding any more posts along the line of my argument. I don't want to dispel people from singing Coptic, even though as you rightly said in hundreds of other hymns if not thousands Arabic, or English translation follows the exact same tune.
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]

    [/quote]

    lol.. no ..Im not on your side and then I changed. I have no sides.
    I said I agree with you that when changing the language and sticking with the same Coptic Melody changes the meaning of the hymn, but for certain hymns.. not for everything.

    I appreciate the need to remember our language, it is a shame it is dying down, but we cannot find any excuse under the sun in order to revive it. We are a Church, not a country.
    We are a faith, not a political ideology that has an agenda to bring Coptic to the masses.

    If I can pray in Coptic with understanding, it will be my 1st option. If I cannot understand what I'm saying, because it is not translated, or the words are too fast (in Coptic), i'll not pray. I'm wasting time.
  • Oh OK... thanks for the clarification Zoxsasi
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=9903.msg121464#msg121464 date=1288262969]
    Oh OK... thanks for the clarification Zoxsasi
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]

    [/quote]

    So you sensationalized the entire thread just to draw people's attention? (lol.. very cute)

    I think your best & biggest advocate on this issue, Ophadece, is His Grace Bishop Thomas.

    I would love to know what he thinks about us trying so hard to pray in Coptic and reconcile this with our inability to speak the language fluently? What would he say to that??


Memorial for HH Pope Shenouda

Share |