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The Rite of Saturday Night Vespers
  • I was checking out the new LAcopts.org site and i saw something very interesting:

    On December 11, 2008, His Grace Bishop Serapion clarified a liturgical rubrics question in a meeting with the clergy of the Diocese.

    The question presented was: In the Vespers Raising of Incense on Saturday evening, is it proper to chant the Adam (Amoini Marenousht) or Watos (Tenousht) Verses of the Cymbals?

    His Grace clarified that the rites of the Raising of Incense on Saturday evening follow the occasion/event of Sunday, the next day. For this reason, after 6:00 p.m. on Saturday, the Church switches to the rites of Sunday. Consequently, the Adam Verses of the Cymbals (Amoini) should be chanted.

    (Diocese Clarifies Rite of Adam and Watos Verses of Cymbals on Saturday Evening)

    So what do you people think about this?!
  • Well it makes sense depending on what time you do vespers. However i've heard that vespers is seperate from the actual liturgy and isn't part of it or the beginning of it. So parts of it stay with the rites of the day and some go to the rites of sunday. This way doesn't make much sense but its what i've seen most churches do. For example, they chant tenousht, the watos intro, then they still say the verses for the occasion of the sunday. Same thing with the doxologies, the occasion of saturdays aren't said but for the following day of sunday.

    I would agree with HG because in the church days are counted from sunset to sunset not by literal hours like we do know from midnight to midnight. So sunday technically starts (in the church at least) from the sunset of saturday. 

  • We usually pray vesper praise after 6:00, should we switch to Adam style? ;)
  • Dear all,
    Here is my tuppence depending on all the discussions we had over and over again on this website and on coptichymns.net. It appears to me that Saturday vespers raising of incense (and to an extent matins as well) is a mixture of the day before and the day after. Tradition says that we sing "[coptic]tenouwst[/coptic]" and not "[coptic]amwini[/coptic]". Also in the discussion of Palm Sunday vespers praise, some people were adamant that we sing annual psalm, although we still sing "[coptic]eulogimenoc[/coptic]". Right before the Saturday vespers praises anyway we sing the vespers praise which is Saturday's sherat (watos) in the tune of the Sunday rites. So for me it makes sense to say that they are both (vespers and matins) a mixture of both adam and watos.
    What still puzzles me is vespers and/or matins of the great feasts, where some cantors (like Wagdi Bishara) sing the psalm in annual tune, and others sing it in short singary. Although I still believe in the latter practice more, I do agree with the former in principle, as it goes with tradition as a whole; maybe it is just a case of not being too bold in applying it into practice :)
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]


Memorial for HH Pope Shenouda

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