Hello all, I am new to the site. My name is Joseph Vanden Brink, and I belong to the Antiochian Orthodox Church. I was received into Orthodoxy on August 14, the Eve of the Dormition of the Theotokos. I'm not really sure what you all would want to know, so feel free to ask me and I'll tell you.
Please keep me in your prayers.
Comments
I Love hearing about people joining the Orthodox Faith. I have a question if you don't mind, what made the orthodox church seem special enough to join as opposed to other churches. Thanks, it just helps to know when trying to talk to others about the Orthodox faith.
Pray for me!
I actually grew up as a Baptist, quite a devout Baptist after 17. I have always had a love for knowledge that has, on occasion, turned into lust. With this hunger, I sought out God's Truth. Since I was 17, I have ceaselessly studies the theologies of practically every type of Christian: Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Old Catholic, Baptist, Wesleyan, Anglican, Reformed, etc. I knew the Coptic Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox were two faces of the same coin, only with a few different strokes here and there (one of them being inclusion of Saints, but this is being worked out as we speak). Where I was, only Eastern Orthodox churches were available for me to attend, so I was received into Holy Orthodoxy through the Orthodox Church in America (aka "American Orthodox," or "Alaskan Orthodox"). Recently, because of a move, I transferred jurisdictions into the Antiochian Orthodox Church. I have several friends, including a priest-monk, in the Coptic Orthodox Church who introduced me to the COC, and I fell in love with it! The only problem was, this happened in Calgary, about six hours away from where I was living at the time, so it wasn't a realistic option becoming part of the COC. In all honesty though, had I been in Calgary and not six hours away, I probably would have been received into the COC.
So, why Orthodoxy over everything else? Because everything else is simply "everything else." I studied to find the Truth, and I refused to settle for anything less, and that I would change myself if I had to in order to belong to the faith of the Holy Apostles and God-Bearing Fathers of the Church. What did it for me, ultimately, was Scripture, and purely Scripture with nothing else than plain reason. For example, look at John 6 where Christ says in eight different ways that if we don't eat and drink His body and blood, we have no life in us! Then He later institutes the celebration of Holy Communion, and then offers Himself for the life of the world, only to resurrect and break bread again with His disciples... if that in itself doesn't reveal to a Protestant that they are not in the Truth, then there is little else that will. But it wasn't just John 6, there was Biblical Ecclesiology that got to me, there were Biblical illustrations of intercessory prayer through the Saints (Revelation especially), the Church being the pillar and foundation of the Truth (2 Timothy 3:15 or 16 I think), and so much more--I'd have to write a book to tell you about the reasons why I became Orthodox.
Actually, I almost did become a Roman Catholic, but halfway through my catechesis, I learned too much and saw the heresy in the Church of Rome. There are several teachings that are terribly anti-Biblical and go against everything Holy Tradition stands for (we aren't supposed to add or take away doctrines).
So yeah, that's about where it is with me. Were there more questions regarding that? I can clarify and expand on some things if you'd like.
I didn't get the first part of your explanation.. the part before why orthodoxy..... so you joined Eastern Orthodox first then went to Antiochian Orthodox Church, then you fell in love with the Coptic Church, but it was unrealistic because you lived 6 hours away??.. may i ask where do you live? (province) and where is the closest Coptic Orthodox Church...
i am not attcking you or anything, but what do you think the Copts do when they move out of Egypt?? in Egypt there is a Church like 15 minutes from your house, almost wherever you lived, for them to move to Canada, or U.S.A. and be living 16 or 17 hours away from the closest Church....
Did you pick a Church because of how close (distance) of where you lived?? I really hope not... I know people who live 3.5 hours away from Church, and drive to Church every single wekkend... they havn't missed a single weekend for a couple of months now..
I would say, if you fell in love with the Coptic Church and it was your favourite Church and you knew it was the right one, then you should join that Church.. no matter how far away it might be... you can ask your Father of Confesion to go to an other Church, to take comunion if there are no Coptic Churches close to you.... but i really hope you didn't pick to not join the Coptic Orthodox Faith because of Distance....
Do u get what i mean.. and i am not attacking you in any form or way....
please correct me if i am wrong
sorry if i have offended anyone, i didn't mean to...
God Bless
Coptic Pharaoh
...
I would say, if you fell in love with the Coptic Church and it was your favourite Church and you knew it was the right one, then you should join that Church.. no matter how far away it might be... you can ask your Father of Confesion to go to an other Church, to take comunion if there are no Coptic Churches close to you.... but i really hope you didn't pick to not join the Coptic Orthodox Faith because of Distance....
...
You mention the "Coptic Orthodox Faith". Our Faith is Orthodox, our tradition is Coptic. The actual faith aspect, I am sure you know, is very similar, and our fathers of the church are currently working with fervor to attain full communion.
Joseph: Welcome! May I ask you what materials you studied? I would love to do so myself, and I am on summer break already, so I have plenty of free time. Let me know your resources! Again, welcome, and I hope you enjoy the website!
Thank you for asking me to clarify. I will try to do a better job this time around.
1) Fell in love with Christian Orthodoxy, period, because it is the Truth. I had a lot more exposure to Eastern Orthodoxy, which includes all of Antiochian, Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Serbian, Romainian, American (OCA), and Japanese.
2) When I was received into the Orthodox Church, I lived in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, with the closest Coptic Church I knew of being in Calgary, Alberta, which is a good six to seven hours away. When it comes to COC or Eastern Orthodox Churches, I consulted priests and other Orthodox Christians (both Eastern and Coptic) and it was they who affirmed me being received into the Orthodox Church in America. Again, I may be wrong, because I usually am, but as it stands, the Orthodox Church in America was the best option. This was something I prayed and struggled through with both Coptic and Eastern Orthodox friends beside me (the Copts from quite a distance away, but over e-mail and phone). Christian Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy, and to be in line with the discussion about Eastern and Oriental Orthodox unity on this site, I don't see a problem if someone becomes one over the other. But again, I'm usually wrong, so forgive me, please.
3) Timeline:
June 2004 - Began to learn about the Orthodox Church, after finding and attending a Vespers service at a Ukrainian Orthodox Church in North Battleford, Saskatchewan. At this time, I knew nothing about Coptic Orthodoxy.
October 2004 - began to learn about Coptic Orthodoxy in an evangelical Bible college. I was taught very wrong things about it, but worked it out and eventually found the correct information a few months afterward. This information, however, was still extremely limited.
April 2005 - Became a catechumen in the Roman Catholic Church. This lasted until August, when I "learned too much."
April and May 2005 - went back to the same Ukrainian Orthodox Church in North Battleford for Lenten services and for Great and Holy Pascha. Became determined to learn the most I could about Orthodoxy.
September to December 2005 - occaisionally attended Divine Liturgy at the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Calgary, Alberta. It was in November during this time I experienced my first Divine Liturgy in a Coptic Orthodox parish. At this point, I had an elementary understanding of Coptic Orthodoxy based upon internet sources from occasional reading. I knew a great deal more about the Eastern Orthodox Church as was exposed to me through the Ukrainian tradition of Orthodoxy--little did I know at this point how much the same Coptic Orthodoxy is to Eastern (minus the small details, of course).
January to November 2006 - I did not attend a single Orthodox service, but continued my reading and study about Orthodoxy. My sources were by people like Fr. Alexander Schmemmen, Fr. Thomas Hopko, Fr. Peter Gilquist, etc.
May 2006 - Met a Coptic Orthodox priest-monk and continued communication with him and some other Coptic friends over telephone and e-mail. Began to learn more about Coptic Orthodoxy and fell in love with the history of it, the music, the culture, and so on, but all over telephone, e-mail, and internet sources.
October 2006 - began reading writings by the Church Fathers after purchasing the 38-volume collection put together by Philip Schaff.
December 2006 to January 2007 - found and attended Holy Resurrection Sobor of the Orthodox Church in America over Nativity and New Years. I told my Coptic friends (including the priest-monk) who then encouraged me to continue in the direction I was moving, which was the Orthodox Church in America.
January to May 2007 - moved to Calgary and twice attended Holy Martyr Peter the Aleut Mission (Orthodox Church in America).
May 2007 - moved back to Saskatoon, and became a catechumen in the Orthodox Church in America at the Sobor of the Holy Resurrection. It was there we had Coptic Orthodox Christians attending and receiving Sacraments.
May to August 2007 - Learned very intensively the doctrines of the Orthodox Church. It was during this time especially I started to struggle with the Coptic/Eastern Orthodox Church difference and separation. I consulted Coptic and Eastern Orthodox friends and shared my struggle with them. They all told me to keep it up and continue with catechesis and Chrismation in the Orthodox Church in America. As they put it, "we Coptic, they OCA, we all the same. Basically, we are two sides of same coin!" When I asked my priest if I could receive Sacraments in the Coptic Orthodox Church if I were to attend one, he said no because we weren't in full communion. If I were in Egypt, though, for more than a season (three or four months), I would likely get a blessing from the Archbishop to receive Sacraments in the Coptic Orthodox Church if the Coptic Bishop also gave a blessing to a priest to administer to me.
May 2008 - moved to Fort Saskatchewan, and transferred jurisdiction to the Antiochian Orthodox Church as that was the only Orthodox Church in town. ***By transferring jurisdictions, I simply mean I started attending the Antiochian parish with the blessing of my priest in the OCA. No paperwork, no hoops or tunnels to crawl through. I was received into the OCA, which is in 100% communion with the rest of the Eastern Orthodox Church, so I can be tonsured a Reader in the Antiochian Orthodox Church and ordained a Deacon in the Russian Orthodox Church... it's all the same, just difference in language and music, essentially.
Thank you for your concern for my soul, Brother, and I hope and pray it is not in danger. If I was wrong in any way, please pray the Lord would forgive me and save my soul. I only seek to serve Jesus Christ, my Lord and Master, my God and Savior, and I trust the clergy the Bishops appoint are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, like the Bishops, to help us discern and walk the path the Lord has laid out before us. Please, if I am still unclear, let me know and I will be more than happy to provide the necessary information.
Thank you very much for your welcomes! I am very much glad to be here, and I do agree, this site is wonderful. In response to Severus: my sources are a very long list, but I can certainly give you a good start.
My best and most invaluable source (other than the Holy Scriptures) is the collection of the Early Church Fathers, ed. by Philip Schaff. You can find this 38 volume collection of superb quality for $299.99 USD at www.christianbook.com. The collection, however, is written in old English, so I hope you don't mind thee and thou type language.
My next best source was the History of the Christian Church collection, also by Philip Schaff. It is 8 volumes for $69.99 USD, also at www.christianbook.com.
From there, I read books by authors like Peter E. Gilquist, Thomas Hopko, Alexander Schmemmen, James Bernstein, Lawrence Farley. These gentlemen are (and were +) all priests in either the Antiochian Orthodox Church or the Orthodox Church in America. A lot of these books you can find on www.christianbook.com, as well as www.conciliarpress.com and other Coptic Orthodox book store websites.
I pray I have provided you with some ideas and good starts. But before all those, the most invaluable resource in my personal library, is the Orthodox Study Bible. I highly recommend it.
Please pray for me.
Remember me in your prayers, I shall do the same.
pray for me
joe
My dear Brother in Christ,
Thank you for asking me to clarify. I will try to do a better job this time around.
1) Fell in love with Christian Orthodoxy, period, because it is the Truth. I had a lot more exposure to Eastern Orthodoxy, which includes all of Antiochian, Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Serbian, Romainian, American (OCA), and Japanese.
2) When I was received into the Orthodox Church, I lived in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, with the closest Coptic Church I knew of being in Calgary, Alberta, which is a good six to seven hours away. When it comes to COC or Eastern Orthodox Churches, I consulted priests and other Orthodox Christians (both Eastern and Coptic) and it was they who affirmed me being received into the Orthodox Church in America. Again, I may be wrong, because I usually am, but as it stands, the Orthodox Church in America was the best option. This was something I prayed and struggled through with both Coptic and Eastern Orthodox friends beside me (the Copts from quite a distance away, but over e-mail and phone). Christian Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy, and to be in line with the discussion about Eastern and Oriental Orthodox unity on this site, I don't see a problem if someone becomes one over the other. But again, I'm usually wrong, so forgive me, please.
3) Timeline:
June 2004 - Began to learn about the Orthodox Church, after finding and attending a Vespers service at a Ukrainian Orthodox Church in North Battleford, Saskatchewan. At this time, I knew nothing about Coptic Orthodoxy.
October 2004 - began to learn about Coptic Orthodoxy in an evangelical Bible college. I was taught very wrong things about it, but worked it out and eventually found the correct information a few months afterward. This information, however, was still extremely limited.
April 2005 - Became a catechumen in the Roman Catholic Church. This lasted until August, when I "learned too much."
April and May 2005 - went back to the same Ukrainian Orthodox Church in North Battleford for Lenten services and for Great and Holy Pascha. Became determined to learn the most I could about Orthodoxy.
September to December 2005 - occaisionally attended Divine Liturgy at the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Calgary, Alberta. It was in November during this time I experienced my first Divine Liturgy in a Coptic Orthodox parish. At this point, I had an elementary understanding of Coptic Orthodoxy based upon internet sources from occasional reading. I knew a great deal more about the Eastern Orthodox Church as was exposed to me through the Ukrainian tradition of Orthodoxy--little did I know at this point how much the same Coptic Orthodoxy is to Eastern (minus the small details, of course).
January to November 2006 - I did not attend a single Orthodox service, but continued my reading and study about Orthodoxy. My sources were by people like Fr. Alexander Schmemmen, Fr. Thomas Hopko, Fr. Peter Gilquist, etc.
May 2006 - Met a Coptic Orthodox priest-monk and continued communication with him and some other Coptic friends over telephone and e-mail. Began to learn more about Coptic Orthodoxy and fell in love with the history of it, the music, the culture, and so on, but all over telephone, e-mail, and internet sources.
October 2006 - began reading writings by the Church Fathers after purchasing the 38-volume collection put together by Philip Schaff.
December 2006 to January 2007 - found and attended Holy Resurrection Sobor of the Orthodox Church in America over Nativity and New Years. I told my Coptic friends (including the priest-monk) who then encouraged me to continue in the direction I was moving, which was the Orthodox Church in America.
January to May 2007 - moved to Calgary and twice attended Holy Martyr Peter the Aleut Mission (Orthodox Church in America).
May 2007 - moved back to Saskatoon, and became a catechumen in the Orthodox Church in America at the Sobor of the Holy Resurrection. It was there we had Coptic Orthodox Christians attending and receiving Sacraments.
May to August 2007 - Learned very intensively the doctrines of the Orthodox Church. It was during this time especially I started to struggle with the Coptic/Eastern Orthodox Church difference and separation. I consulted Coptic and Eastern Orthodox friends and shared my struggle with them. They all told me to keep it up and continue with catechesis and Chrismation in the Orthodox Church in America. As they put it, "we Coptic, they OCA, we all the same. Basically, we are two sides of same coin!" When I asked my priest if I could receive Sacraments in the Coptic Orthodox Church if I were to attend one, he said no because we weren't in full communion. If I were in Egypt, though, for more than a season (three or four months), I would likely get a blessing from the Archbishop to receive Sacraments in the Coptic Orthodox Church if the Coptic Bishop also gave a blessing to a priest to administer to me.
May 2008 - moved to Fort Saskatchewan, and transferred jurisdiction to the Antiochian Orthodox Church as that was the only Orthodox Church in town. ***By transferring jurisdictions, I simply mean I started attending the Antiochian parish with the blessing of my priest in the OCA. No paperwork, no hoops or tunnels to crawl through. I was received into the OCA, which is in 100% communion with the rest of the Eastern Orthodox Church, so I can be tonsured a Reader in the Antiochian Orthodox Church and ordained a Deacon in the Russian Orthodox Church... it's all the same, just difference in language and music, essentially.
Thank you for your concern for my soul, Brother, and I hope and pray it is not in danger. If I was wrong in any way, please pray the Lord would forgive me and save my soul. I only seek to serve Jesus Christ, my Lord and Master, my God and Savior, and I trust the clergy the Bishops appoint are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, like the Bishops, to help us discern and walk the path the Lord has laid out before us. Please, if I am still unclear, let me know and I will be more than happy to provide the necessary information.
Sorry if i had offended you in any way or form, i truly did not mean too..... and you have the choice to go to which ever Church you like.... and i didn't know wha circomstances you were under, again, i am sorry
**and by the way, i wouldn't say that you are wrong, like ou kept on saying, u probably know tons more than i do, and i mean TONS...
I wish you a great experience in Orthodoxy and remember to pray for me.
PK
I think it's pretty silly that the Orthodox Churches (Eastern and Oriental) are not in communion with each other. I'm quite glad you made the right decision in becoming orthodox whether eastern or oriental. The one reccomendation I have for you is to listen to Coptic Orthodox sermons. Whether Eastern or Oriental Orthodox, I think they are quite beneficial to one's faith. You can find many english sermons on orthodoxsermons.org
I wish you a great experience in Orthodoxy and remember to pray for me.
PK
My dear Brother in Christ,
Forgive me, a sinner.
Thank you for your encouragement and recommendations. Until a few months ago, I was listening to sermons by Abouna Anthony Messeh, from St. Mark's in Washington (I think that's where he's from), and I have found them to be very uplifting and challenging. I also occasionally listen to lectures and sermons by Baba Shenouda--I don't quite understand everything because of my lack of Arabic ability, but most of it I understand and cherish dearly. He is such a wise monk, with a great sense of humour.
My dear Brother, you shall be in my prayers. The blessing of the Lord be upon you, through His grace and love toward mankind, always, now and ever, and unto ages of ages.
Pray for me, my Brother.
Forgive me, a sinner.
joseph +