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Not of works lest any man should boast
  • Is works necessary with faith to be saved? St James says faith if it does not have works is dead. So it seems if you have deep faith and love for Jesus you would automatically do works. But one needs to keep growing his faith as St Jude says building yourselves up in your most holy faith and Jesus says "this is the work of God that you believe on Him whom He sent" that is to keep having a relationship with God so that you come to see Jesus as the light of the world and God's Only Son and Messiah God

    Romans 5 gives great hope towards those who have truly received Jesus. The hope that ultimately their hope of receiving salvation is dependent only on the blood of Jesus but going back to sin is sometimes a rejection of God and hence faith. I am not qualified to say if someone is saved or not who goes back to sin but am I not boasting when I feel I am better than other men because I do righteous works? I must do righteous works and live holy yet deep inside feel I am just like other men and as depraved?  or is this a protestant teaching as an attack against people who live righteously?

    we must all hope in salvation by the mercy of God apart from works but to make our call and election sure we must have a living faith. A deep faith. Without Him we can do nothing
  • This "Works salvation" term came from protestants who accused the catholic church (rightly so) of selling Indulgence Certificates.

    Martin Luther saw this corruption. He responded in many "Theses" that attacked the way the Catholic Church sold salvation. The Pope (God's top man on earth) was signing these certificates giving ANYONE complete pardon for any sin.

    The Catholics then came up with the dogma of purgatory to increase sales of these indulgence certificates: i.e. let's say you did something bad, you never confessed it, then you will definitely spend time being fried/purified and detoxified.

    You see how purgatory works? Even if you've done NOTHING wrong, you still go, because your sorry isn't ever good enough. Now, to speed up the time in purgatory, to get a pardon, the pope's certificates ensure that you are forgiven, and you're "good-to-go".

    You see where that term came from? Its from Martin Luther who said that salvation couldn't be bought - he was talking about the Catholic Church.

    For many protestants, they've hated and lost credibility in the Catholic Church. I cannot necessarily blame them.

    But they see us, and then apply the same philosophy on us that they applied on the Catholics.

    The answer to them is that the Eucharist, the Sacraments are NOT works - they are the mysteries and channels through which we have can have intimacy with Christ.

    When speaking to protestants about being saved through sacraments, its important to tell them this history.

    Although there is much truth in their argument and in Martin Luther's response to the corruption of "buying" your salvation, they've over-compensated and rejected essential apostolic SPIRITUAL traditions such as communion, faith, baptism etc that are required for salvation.

    Salvation isn't just about believing. Salvation is about being with Christ. Being with Him in every sense. We unite with Christ in Baptism, we consume His flesh and blood so He is in us and the power of His presence in the Eucharist revives us and gives us life.

    Prayer is simply talking to God. Reading the Bible purifies you and alerts your conscience to your sins. That's good. That's very important, but to be really intimate with Christ, you need the sacraments. This isn't works salvation, its LIVING. Its like saying : Life is free.. sure , its free, but if I don't eat anything I die.

    As I said, the protestants are confusing the term "Works" salvation. The Eucharist is NOT a work. A work is a man-made act, or a man-made action that I must do to be saved. The Eucharist IS NOT man-made. Its God made. Its a mystery and its precedence is not only in the Bible (He who eats my Body and drinks My Blood will have eternal life...) - but its embedded in the Apostolic and Biblical traditions.

    Without the Eucharist, you cannot have complete intimacy with Christ. Its IMPOSSIBLE.

    In fact, through reading the Bible and NO communion, you simply grow in KNOWLEDGE of Christ, not IN Christ. Its as if its KNOWLEDGE that saves them. Believing that Christ is God is knowledge. The demons believe this, and they fear Christ over it - its all knowledge. But intimacy with Christ really is from the Eucharist.

    I just wish to say that its not just from the Eucharist, but engaging in it in a Holy way - being prepared to have communion, confessing, repenting etc.

    It should work like this:

    Bible reading --> Quiet Time --> Repenting --> Confessing --> Communion --> Thanksgiving

    Reading the Bible and memorising verses is knowledge. Which is more important? The knowledge OF God, or Knowing God personally?

    The Orthodox Church provides a passage with which we can have complete intimacy with Christ and the fruits of His Holy Spirit as a result. that's a fact.

    I would say the Catholic Church too!!! But the Orthodox Church doesn't have to go and apologise for Indulgence Certificates and purgatory theology that makes no sense.
  • Thanks for your reply but I wanted to discuss the idea that works are a proof of our salvation
    I believe this is true for Jesus said the seed that fell on the good soil bore fruit some thirty some sixty and some 100
    One did not ever know Jesus who is like the other soil the stony ground etc just as Jesus said "I never knew you " Matthew 7:23 and "My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me" "I know My sheep and am known by My own" "they will never listen to a stranger" I.e true heretics perhaps
    Because knowing the LORD allows grace to grace to work in us for salvation
    I also need to make sure I know the LORD and strive to enter by the narrow gate
    Therefore you shall know them by their fruits if they love one another sincerely and feel remorse for their sins and always try to stop
    If they take the sacraments in a worthy manner with a desire to change and serve Christ and not men to read the bible by ones self as well as talk to a confession father about the bible


Memorial for HH Pope Shenouda

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