Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Adam Doxology Feast of the Assumption
  • Hi Guys

    Attached is the Adam Doxology to be said during the glorification rite for the feast of St May. Can somebody who has Albeir's glorification rite book and can type arabic please upload the text either in a post or the lyrics library.

    Thanks.
  • this is beautiful, thank you very much... do you have all the doxologies in English, the ones that are not in the old black book?!
  • Andrew, i'll see what i can do.

    BAM, these are not like the doxologies you'd say in Vespers and matins, which are Watos Doxologies. Adam Doxologies are said in tune in Epouro in tamgeed and i believe after it (i might be mistaken). In fact, these doxologies are the source of the tune of saints' adam madayeh, that are also said in the tune of Epouro.
  • Mina and all,

    I just wanted to point out that some churches are singing the Adam doxologies in the standard Morning Doxologies tune (Tenoowst). In reality, the Eporo tune is a slow version of the annual Pioowini tune. However, some deacons believe that if it is wrong to sing it in the Eporo tune. To make matters worse, some sing the last verse (hiten niepresvia or hiten nievshe) in the Pioik tune - which is a new invention that is sticking in many churches.

    I just wanted to point out that the Eporo tune is correct.
  • [quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=14573.msg165634#msg165634 date=1376321593]
    Mina and all,

    I just wanted to point out that some churches are singing the Adam doxologies in the standard Morning Doxologies tune (Tenoowst). In reality, the Eporo tune is a slow version of the annual Pioowini tune. However, some deacons believe that if it is wrong to sing it in the Eporo tune. To make matters worse, some sing the last verse (hiten niepresvia or hiten nievshe) in the Pioik tune - which is a new invention that is sticking in many churches.

    I just wanted to point out that the Eporo tune is correct.

    you just confused me very much right now. This is what i know and i believe:
    - The morning doxology has it's own tune. in tamgeed, YOU DO say the specific part of the doxology for the patron of the tamgeed...and i think its place is before the difnar reading.
    - I don't see the Epouro as a slow version. i believe it's just a separate tune on it's own. Also, we call it 'epouro tune' but it may not be. it is possible that the Adam doxologies/madayeh were always said in that tune and Epouro was just tagged unto them (possibly after adding neknai o panouti to the morning doxology parts and skipping the difnar....this is a lilttle far fetched though.
    -the hetinni verses--i do agree it's a new development but mainly from the one we say for the fathers after ekesmaroout. So since you start the tamgeed with ekesmarout, than why not change the hiten for the saint. Also i do see the similarity to Pi-oik but it's not "exactly" the same.
  • [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=14573.msg165635#msg165635 date=1376323447]

    you just confused me very much right now. This is what i know and i believe:
    Sorry for the confusion.


    - The morning doxology has it's own tune. in tamgeed, YOU DO say the specific part of the doxology for the patron of the tamgeed...and i think its place is before the difnar reading.


    Yes. I know. In the tamgeed, you say the specific part of the morning doxology or the adam doxology for the patron of the tamgeed. So for St Antony, you say nye;ouab `ntak@ ef`e`cmou `erok... or the Adam doxology for St Antony. The same is true for the Morning doxologies. You can say the Adam doxology for St Antony after nye;ouab `ntak@ ef`e`cmou `erok. The question is not which doxology to say or when but what tune for the specific liturgical service (Tamgeed in the tamgeed tune and Morning doxologies tune for the morning doxologies). I don't understand why people switch to the morning doxology tune during the tamgeed.

    - I don't see the Epouro as a slow version. i believe it's just a separate tune on it's own. Also, we call it 'epouro tune' but it may not be. it is possible that the Adam doxologies/madayeh were always said in that tune and Epouro was just tagged unto them (possibly after adding neknai o panouti to the morning doxology parts and skipping the difnar....this is a lilttle far fetched though.


    I agree that Epooro is added on. And when I say the "eporo tune", I mean the fast "eporo" tune. It is the same tune used for the madayeh (For example, Alsalmo laki Mariam, ya om allah al koodos...). This is different than the annual morning doxology tune - which to me sounds like a faster version of the tamgeed madayeh/Eporo tune. But it's not exactly the same. Sorry for the confusion.

    I think there is an intentional distinction to sing the Adam doxologies in the tamgeed madayeh tune for glorifications and the same Adam doxologies in the Morning doxology tune (tenoowsht) for the Morning doxology without crossing over. This distinction is getting washed away and tunes are crossing over to the other service more commonly. This I believe is unfortunate.

    -the hetinni verses--i do agree it's a new development but mainly from the one we say for the fathers after ekesmaroout. So since you start the tamgeed with ekesmarout, than why not change the hiten for the saint. Also i do see the similarity to Pi-oik but it's not "exactly" the same.


    Yes. Pioik is not exactly the same. The use of the "hitenni" tune for the Papal hitenni (after Ekesmaroot) is unique. Using this rational to sing the any hitenni in the Tamgeed Adam doxologies with this same "hitenni" tune begins a dangerous path where people mix and match rites based on personal preference, instead of maintaining what was handed down to us.

    I've seen the most curious practices occurring because a cantor inserts his personal preference over the rite. For example, I've seen churches read "Holy, Holy, Holy" in the Agpeya normally for the first half and then switch to singing the second half as the Gregorian Bwl evol ,w ebol. Obviously, we were not handed the Agpeya from our fathers with the Gregorian tunes. I think hymns and services were meant to be specific for communal or corporate worship vs personal private prayers. Nowadays, we take a personal prayer or style and use it for communal worship ignoring the purpose of liturgical rite formulas. This is not the traditional Orthodox practice and understanding of liturgical worship and it is an invention that is gaining more popularity. Again, it is unfortunate.
  • [quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=14573.msg165640#msg165640 date=1376329435]
    I've seen the most curious practices occurring because a cantor inserts his personal preference over the rite. For example, I've seen churches read "Holy, Holy, Holy" in the Agpeya normally for the first half and then switch to singing the second half as the Gregorian Bwl evol ,w ebol. Obviously, we were not handed the Agpeya from our fathers with the Gregorian tunes. I think hymns and services were meant to be specific for communal or corporate worship vs personal private prayers. Nowadays, we take a personal prayer or style and use it for communal worship ignoring the purpose of liturgical rite formulas. This is not the traditional Orthodox practice and understanding of liturgical worship and it is an invention that is gaining more popularity. Again, it is unfortunate.

    I fully agree.
  • Hi Mina

    Is there any chance of the Arabic text before Tuesday?

    Really appreciate your help.
  • thanks, minatasgeel for all your hard work on the website.
    i was enjoying the site earlier today, when i saw u updated some hymns  :)

    this is one of my favourites:
    http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/691

    i just about understand enough coptic to realise how beautiful the words are and how poetic.
    the translation is also lovely.
    truly our God is great, and holds all things in His hands.
    may He guide u in all your work and service and protect our dear families in egypt.
  • A slight correction.

    O kirios metasoo is not a part of this hymn. These words are part of the hymn that directly proceeds this hymn (the ending of it.) The hymn is called "Shere theotoke."

    It makes no sense to say "The Lord is with you" to the virgin in a hymn which is not related to her.

    Remnkemi has written an article regarding this hymn. He may verify

    Ray
  • [quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=14573.msg165670#msg165670 date=1376861642]
    A slight correction.

    O kirios metasoo is not a part of this hymn. These words are part of the hymn that directly proceeds this hymn (the ending of it.) The hymn is called "Shere theotoke."

    It makes no sense to say "The Lord is with you" to the virgin in a hymn which is not related to her.

    Remnkemi has written an article regarding this hymn. He may verify

    Ray


    Do you know where I can find this article?

    God Bless
  • My article is on Coptica 10, "Coptic Bilingualism and Hymn-Writing: A Study of the Glorification Hymn Agios Istin", p. 1-19. You can order it from St Shenouda the Archimandrite Coptic Society or join their Coptic heritage website and get access to all their articles and projects. www.stshenouda.org or copticheritage.stshenouda.org/TC.htm.

    Yes. O kyrios is the end of Shere theotoke, not the beginning of Agios istin. If you don't say Shere theotoke, then don't say O kyrios meta. As Ray pointed out, O kyrios meta so is a liturgical text to the virgin while all of Agios Istin is a Trinitarian hymn. It makes no sense to use the two in the same sentence.


Memorial for HH Pope Shenouda

Share |