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What was Eve Lacking?
  • Hi,

    It says in the Bible that God breathed into Adam. What did Adam receive when God did this?

    The reason why I'm asking is because whatever He received when God did this, Eve didn't get any of it. Did she?

    Was it just logical thinking?

  • No. It has nothing to do with logical thinking or a rational soul (the common liturgical language). What Adam received was life from God through breath (God's breath specifically). What Eve received was life from God through Adam's rib. Same thing received but through two different processes.
  • Also...it's very symbolic.  There's no difference between man and woman at all except physically.  So, nothing was lacking in Eve that wasn't there in Adam, whether intellectually or spiritually.  It's symbolic for its prophetic power:

    The Old Adam was conceived by the earth and God's breathe.  The New Adam was conceived by the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit.

    The Old Mother was created out of Adam's side, a rib, after the Old Adam's deep sleep.  The New Mother, the Church, was created out of Christ's side, where water and blood gushed out, after the New Adam's death.
  • Eve lacked nothing.

    Eve was begotten through Adam. You can think of it as a child is begotten through the mother and the father.

    The breath of God passed on from Adam to Eve. This regarding creation.

    Regarding the commandment of eating from the tree, the commandment was given only to Adam and thus he was the one to whom the fall and disobedience belong. He was the guardian of God's commandment.

  • I think Eve lacked something. How can this be?

    God breathed into Man, he didn't breath into Woman.

    When God punished Adam, He punished him because He listened to his wife.

    WOMEN! What a headache.

    You know, some guy tried to convince me that God was a woman. I told him: "No. God is neither a man or a woman, for God is Spirit". He said "Could God be a woman"?

    I replied: "Its impossible for God to be a woman. If God was a woman, we'd have been sent to hell, and never have known or understood why".

  • sasi, did God breath in you to give you life?!
    Are you different then Adam?!
    were you not granted the same salvation. As Adam, Eve, and all the descendents?!


    Let's not begin empty arguments. your question was answered with more then sufficient response... you have another related question, ask... but DO NOT just keep reiterating the question.
  • Eve lacked nothing!  This sounds confusing to me!  Why split hairs on this topic?  In God there is  no male or female, the Word of God tells us  through St. Paul.  In Christ there is no male or female, only Christ!  That is, if a person is baptized into Christ!

    Perhaps I don't seem to make sense;  but the Breath of God, in the Holy Spirit is in the whole Creation, isn't it?
    Nothing would exist otherwise.  "The Spirit of God breathes where he will!" This is in the Gospel somewhere.  I'm not very good at rememberes verses and numbers.  But,  this Truth seems very true to me at Present!

  • [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=14422.msg164607#msg164607 date=1368625006]
    sasi, did God breath in you to give you life?!
    Are you different then Adam?!
    were you not granted the same salvation. As Adam, Eve, and all the descendents?!


    Let's not begin empty arguments. your question was answered with more then sufficient response... you have another related question, ask... but DO NOT just keep reiterating the question.
    [/quote]

    Yeah, say what I want to hear or get zapped by the censor. No apostolic or patristic thought allowed here. What Holy Bible or Holy Fathers teach the gender equality heresy espoused here? I can't find it in my Holy Bible or Holy Fathers. My Apostles and Fathers teach the following: Misogyny? Heresy? or God's Truth?


    1 Peter 2:18-3:7
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    Submission to Masters
    18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh. 19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
    22 
    “Who committed no sin,
    Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;
    23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
    Submission to Husbands
    3 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3 Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— 4 rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.
    A Word to Husbands
    7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.

    St. John Chrysostom commentary on 1Cor. 11:3: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf112.txt
    For with us indeed the woman is reasonably subjected to the man: since equality of honor causeth contention. And not for this cause only, but by reason also of the deceit (1 Tim. ii. 14.) which happened in the beginning. Wherefore you see, she was not subjected as soon as she was made; nor, when He brought her to the man, did either she hear any such thing from God, nor did the man say any such word to her: he said indeed that she was "bone of his bone, and flesh of his flesh:" (Gen. ii. 23.) but of rule or subjection he no where made mention unto her. But when she made an ill use of her privilege and she who had been made a helper was found to be an ensnarer and ruined all, then she is justly told for the future, "thy turning shall be to thy husband." (Gen. iii.16.)

    To account for which; it was likely that this sin would have thrown our race into a state of warfare; (for her having been made out of him would not have contributed any thing to peace, when this had happened, nay, rather this very thing would have made the man even the harsher, that she made as she was out of him should not have spared even him who was a member of herself:)  wherefore God, considering the malice of the Devil, raised up the bulwark of this word and what enmity was likely to arise from his evil device, He took away by means of this sentence and by the desire implanted in us: thus pulling down the partition-wall, i.e., the resentment caused by that sin of hers. But in God and in that undefiled Essence, one must not suppose any such thing.

    St. John Chrysostom commentary on 1 Timothy ii. 11-15: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf113.txt

    "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in [through the] child-bearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

    Great modesty and great propriety does the blessed Paul require of women, and that not only with respect to their dress and appearance: he proceeds even to regulate their speech. And what says he? "Let the woman learn in silence"; that is, let her not speak at all in the church; which rule he has also given in his Epistle to the Corinthians, where he says, "It is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1 Cor. xiv. 35.); and the reason is, that the law has made them subject to men. And again elsewhere, "And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home." (Ibid.) Then indeed the women, from such teaching, kept silence; but now there is apt to be great noise among them, much clamor and talking, and nowhere so much as in this place. They may all be seen here talking more than in the market, or at the bath. For, as if they came hither for recreation, they are all engaged in conversing upon unprofitable subjects. Thus all is confusion, and they seem not to understand, that unless they are quiet, they cannot learn anything that is useful. For when our discourse strains against the talking, and no one minds what is said, what good can it do to them? To such a degree should women be silent, that they are not allowed to speak not only about worldly matters, but not even about spiritual things, in the church. This is order, this is modesty, this will adorn her more than any garments. Thus clothed, she will be able to offer her prayers in the manner most becoming.

    "But I suffer not a woman to teach." "I do not suffer," he says. What place has this command here? The fittest. He was speaking of quietness, of propriety, of modesty, so having said that he wished them not to speak in the church, to cut off all occasion of conversation, he says, let them not teach, but occupy the station of learners. For thus they will show submission by their silence. For the sex is naturally somewhat talkative: and for this reason he restrains them on all sides. "For Adam," says he, "was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

    If it be asked, what has this to do with women of the present day? it shows that the male sex enjoyed the higher honor. Man was first formed; and elsewhere he shows their superiority. "Neither was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man." (1 Cor. xi. 9.) Why then does he say this? He wishes the man to have the preeminence in every way; both for the reason given above, he means, let him have precedence, and on account of what occurred afterwards. For the woman taught the man once, and made him guilty of disobedience, and wrought our ruin. Therefore because she made a bad use of her power over the man, or rather her equality with him, God made her subject to her husband. "Thy desire shall be to thy husband?" (Gen. iii. 16.) This had not been said to her before.

    But how was Adam not deceived? If he was not deceived, he did not then transgress? Attend carefully. The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me." But the man did not say, The woman deceived me, but, "she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." Now it is not the same thing to be deceived by a fellow-creature, one of the same kind, as by an inferior and subordinate animal. This is truly to be deceived. Compared therefore with the woman, he is spoken of as "not deceived." For she was beguiled by an inferior and subject, he by an equal. Again, it is not said of the man, that he "saw the tree was good for food," but of the woman, and that she "did eat, and gave it to her husband": so that he transgressed, not captivated by appetite, but merely from the persuasion of his wife. The woman taught once, and ruined all. On this account therefore he saith, let her not teach. But what is it to other women, that she suffered this? It certainly concerns them; for the sex is weak and fickle, and he is speaking of the sex collectively. For he says not Eve, but "the woman," which is the common name of the whole sex, not her proper name. Was then the whole sex included in the transgression for her fault? As he said of Adam, "After the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of Him that was to come" (Rom. v. 14.); so here the female sex transgressed, and not the male. Shall not women then be saved? Yes, by means of children. For it is not of Eve that he says, "If they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." What faith? what charity? what holiness with sobriety? It is as if he had said, "Ye women, be not cast down, because your sex has incurred blame. God has granted you another opportunity of salvation, by the bringing up of children, so that you are saved, not only by yourselves, but by others." See how many questions are involved in this matter. "The woman," he says, "being deceived was in the transgression." What woman? Eve. Shall she then be saved by child-bearing? He does not say that, but, the race of women shall be saved. Was not it then involved in transgression? Yes, it was, still Eve transgressed, but the whole sex shall be saved, notwithstanding, "by childbearing." And why not by their own personal virtue? For has she excluded others from this salvation? And what will be the case with virgins, with the barren, with widows who have lost their husbands, before they had children? will they perish? is there no hope for them? yet virgins are held in the highest estimation. What then does he mean to say?

  • Irishpilgrim,
    The question was not "Was Eve subjected to Adam or not?" or "Should women be subjected to men or not?" The question was specific, concerning Eve's status at the creation before the fall, not after the fall.

    Your references of St John Chyrsostom concur that Eve lacked nothing.

    St. John Chrysostom commentary on 1Cor. 11:3: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf112.txt
      For with us indeed the woman is reasonably subjected to the man: since equality of honor causeth contention. And not for this cause only, but by reason also of the deceit (1 Tim. ii. 14.) which happened in the beginning. Wherefore you see, she was not subjected as soon as she was made; nor, when He brought her to the man, did either she hear any such thing from God, nor did the man say any such word to her: he said indeed that she was "bone of his bone, and flesh of his flesh:" (Gen. ii. 23.) but of rule or subjection he no where made mention unto her. But when she made an ill use of her privilege and she who had been made a helper was found to be an ensnarer and ruined all, then she is justly told for the future, "thy turning shall be to thy husband." (Gen. iii.16.)

    St. John Chrysostom commentary on 1 Timothy ii. 11-15: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf113.txt
    But how was Adam not deceived? If he was not deceived, he did not then transgress? Attend carefully. The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me." But the man did not say, The woman deceived me, but, "she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." Now it is not the same thing to be deceived by a fellow-creature, one of the same kind, as by an inferior and subordinate animal. This is truly to be deceived. Compared therefore with the woman, he is spoken of as "not deceived." For she was beguiled by an inferior and subject, he by an equal.

    And you did not finish St John Chyrsostom's commentary on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 where he specifically addresses the question. Here is the rest of the commentary on Chapter 2:
    "Some interpret his meaning thus. As what happened to the first woman occasioned the subjection of the whole sex, (for since Eve was formed second and made subject, he says, let the rest of the sex be in subjection,) so because she transgressed, the rest of the sex are also in transgression. But this is not fair reasoning; for at the creation all was the gift of God, but in this case, it is the consequence of the woman's sin. But this is the amount of what he says. As all men died through one, because that one sinned, so the whole female race transgressed, because the woman was in the transgression. Let her not however grieve. God hath given her no small consolation, that of childbearing. And if it be said that this is of nature, so is that also of nature; for not only that which is of nature has been granted, but also the bringing up of children. "If they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety"; that is, if after childbearing, they keep them [1192] in charity and purity. By these means they will have no small reward on their account, because they have trained up wrestlers for the service of Christ. By holiness he means good life, modesty, and sobriety."

    You can see from the highlighted sections that Eve lacked nothing at the creation before the fall.


Memorial for HH Pope Shenouda

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