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why are the orthodox churches not all in communion
  • Why are the orthodox churches not all in communion? Like the EO & OO??
    What happened over the course of history? Anba Yousef came to our church and told us that the
    OO and the EO should be in communion soon? Why don't the OO or the EO try to come together to settle there differences and try to fix any controversial matter?  :o Lets say a Russian or Greek orthodox person goes to a Coptic church will they be denied of partaking of the holy Body and the precious Blood?
  • [quote author=markmarcos link=topic=13581.msg158262#msg158262 date=1343624437]
    Why are the orthodox churches not all in communion? Like the EO & OO??
    What happened over the course of history? Anba Yousef came to our church and told us that the
    OO and the EO should be in communion soon? Why don't the OO or the EO try to come together to settle there differences and try to fix any controversial matter?  :o Lets say a Russian or Greek orthodox person goes to a Coptic church will they be denied of partaking of the holy Body and the precious Blood?
    [/quote]

    No communion between the EO and the OO. This means they cannot partake of the holy body and he precious blood.

    Another discussion talked about this

    http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,13480.msg157393.html#msg157393

  • [quote author=Father Peter link=topic=13480.msg157428#msg157428 date=1341690989]
    There is communion between the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox laity. This takes place everywhere, even at the hands of His Holiness Pope Shenouda.

    The Eastern Orthodox are Orthodox, and therefore cannot become Orthodox. And they certainly cannot become Coptic Orthodox, as if that were something different.

    I have a Russian Orthodox Reader in my Church. He did not become Orthodox. He already was. He received a blessing to serve, and was ordained a Reader. I have many other Eastern Orthodox in my congregation. They also were already Orthodox.
    [/quote]

    If this is true why aren’t we all one Orthodox Church as we say with the Indian Syrian Armenian Eritrean and Ethiopian churches... why don’t we add Greek Russian Etc.? 
  • because of the great  schism that took place at the year 451
  • ^The actual breaking of communion did not take place until about a century later. There were also reunion talks in ancient times that fell through mostly due to the advent of Islam.
  • its sad that even orthodox churches arnt united. why do they need to change the teachings of the apostles? they should just leave it all as it was.
  • please pray that God brings more unity.
    we all wrote a joint declaration of orthodoxy in 1990, but getting full communion will take a bit longer. the bishops, priests and theologians need our prayers a lot on this and we can help by visiting other orthodox churches (check with your priest first about Holy Communion) and by being kind to orthodox Christian people who are not from our church.

    tomorrow we (on the old calendar) begin the fast of saint mary.
    now is a very good time to pray and fast for unity and peace in our time, and may the intercessions of saint mary the mother of God and all the saints be with us.
  • Just to get people more excited:  I recently spent 7 months at an Eastern Orthodox monastery in Northern California, where I was planning on becoming a monk, but certain things happened and now I am back in the world.

    Anyways, I can tell you, in all honesty, that our Bishop blessed a Coptic Orthodox youth group from southern California to come to our monastery, sing praises in our monastery church, and to celebrate the Coptic Orthodox Liturgy on our altar. 

    Let me repeat that: A Bishop in the Eastern Orthodox Church blessed a group of Coptic Orthodox young people, along with their priest and deacons, to celebrate their Liturgy on, our, altar.  Eastern Orthodox bishops don't let just anyone do that.  I am quite certain that my bishop would never let a Roman Catholic group come to that monastery and celebrate holy mass on an Eastern Orthodox altar.  It is because the Oriental Orthodox are Orthodox.
  • ^How did the Monks react?
  • [quote author=arsenios link=topic=13581.msg158565#msg158565 date=1344313356]
    Just to get people more excited:  I recently spent 7 months at an Eastern Orthodox monastery in Northern California, where I was planning on becoming a monk, but certain things happened and now I am back in the world.

    Anyways, I can tell you, in all honesty, that our Bishop blessed a Coptic Orthodox youth group from southern California to come to our monastery, sing praises in our monastery church, and to celebrate the Coptic Orthodox Liturgy on our altar. 

    Let me repeat that: A Bishop in the Eastern Orthodox Church blessed a group of Coptic Orthodox young people, along with their priest and deacons, to celebrate their Liturgy on, our, altar.  Eastern Orthodox bishops don't let just anyone do that.  I am quite certain that my bishop would never let a Roman Catholic group come to that monastery and celebrate holy mass on an Eastern Orthodox altar.  It is because the Oriental Orthodox are Orthodox.
    [/quote]

    Hey, was that me? :)

    http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.102457359834727.5041.100002113894221&type=3

    image
  • For the record, if indeed you are speaking about a trip I made with some youth to the OCA Monastery in Manton CA (St. John of SF), then I just want to point out that I did pray on their altar at their request but I brought with me a consecrated "holy board" to place on the altar. This was from our end.  It was a beautiful liturgy!

    image
  • [quote author=Severian link=topic=13581.msg158568#msg158568 date=1344316861]
    ^How did the Monks react?
    [/quote]

    I believe there was one monk who was not at all happy, but as you can see from Fr. Kyrillos' photos, a handful were very receptive to them.  :)
  • [quote author=Fr. Kyrillos link=topic=13581.msg158569#msg158569 date=1344319317]
    [quote author=arsenios link=topic=13581.msg158565#msg158565 date=1344313356]
    Just to get people more excited:  I recently spent 7 months at an Eastern Orthodox monastery in Northern California, where I was planning on becoming a monk, but certain things happened and now I am back in the world.

    Anyways, I can tell you, in all honesty, that our Bishop blessed a Coptic Orthodox youth group from southern California to come to our monastery, sing praises in our monastery church, and to celebrate the Coptic Orthodox Liturgy on our altar. 

    Let me repeat that: A Bishop in the Eastern Orthodox Church blessed a group of Coptic Orthodox young people, along with their priest and deacons, to celebrate their Liturgy on, our, altar.  Eastern Orthodox bishops don't let just anyone do that.  I am quite certain that my bishop would never let a Roman Catholic group come to that monastery and celebrate holy mass on an Eastern Orthodox altar.  It is because the Oriental Orthodox are Orthodox.
    [/quote]

    Hey, was that me? :)

    http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.102457359834727.5041.100002113894221&type=3

    image
    [/quote]

    *Jaw dropping*  Yep, that looks like their iconostasis.  Haha, awesome!
  • [quote author=Fr. Kyrillos link=topic=13581.msg158570#msg158570 date=1344319656]
    For the record, if indeed you are speaking about a trip I made with some youth to the OCA Monastery in Manton CA (St. John of SF), then I just want to point out that I did pray on their altar at their request but I brought with me a consecrated "holy board" to place on the altar. This was from our end.  It was a beautiful liturgy!

    image
    [/quote]

    Thanks for the clarification!  I only heard about your visit secondhand, from Fr. Stavros (now Fr. Photios--the man in the first photo standing by the prosphora, for those of you who don't know).  Oh and Fr. Nektarios also mentioned something.  I really wish I could have been there to see it all.  And I nearly got to meet Abouna Daniel Habib, from St. John Coptic Orthodox church in LA, but he cancelled his visit.  Booo!

    By the way I know all the guys in black in this photo.  I miss them all and hope they are hanging in there.

    On a side note:  Fr. Kyrillos, which parish are you from?
  • Thanks Arsenios...I am at St. Marina in Irvine, CA.
  • Father bless,

    What do you mean by "Holy board?"
  • [quote author=Severian link=topic=13581.msg158580#msg158580 date=1344327989]
    Father bless,

    What do you mean by "Holy board?"
    [/quote]

    When an altar is not consecrated (I'm not sure if the vessels must be consecrated), a holy board is placed underneath the covering of the altar to make it as if it was consecrated
  • ^Thanks. Was this done because we do not believe the Chalcedonian Altar to be truly consecrated? Or did they request that the Copts bring one?
  • [quote author=Severian link=topic=13581.msg158583#msg158583 date=1344331494]
    ^Thanks. Was this done because we do not believe the Chalcedonian Altar to be truly consecrated? Or did they request that the Copts bring one?
    [/quote]

    I think that's reading too much into it.

    EO's have a cloth on the altar with the signature of the bishop. We have a wooden board anointed by the bishop, or the altar itself is anointed by the bishop. In either case, this is the permission of the bishop for the Liturgy of his church (diocese) to be prayed on that Altar. It is a sign that the altar at which the presbyter prays is an extension of the altar of the bishop, that the Liturgy is one, and not many. To bring an altar board would show the unity of the Liturgy with the bishop, rather than to make a statement one way or the other about whether the EO's altar is a proper altar in their own Church (diocese under their bishop). Of course, if we were going to another Coptic Church, there would be no need for brining an altar board, because we would be in Communion with the Church (diocese) that that altar is a part of.
  • Yeah, I would say that simply put, we are not in communion with the OO, and that was the need for the altar board. 

    However, I think that is awesome that at least they were able to have their Liturgy on the monastery altar.  I mean, they could have NOT been invited or allowed to have their service in the church, but our Archbishop blessed it, and the monastery, being obedient to it's hierarch, opened the doors.  That says something about ourArchbishop and his willingness to cooperate with the Copts of southern California.
  • any random table can become an alter with the bored.
  • [quote author=markmarcos link=topic=13581.msg158648#msg158648 date=1344397298]
    any random table can become an alter with the bored.
    [/quote]

    Yep
  • Good we all agree  ;D
  • Rest assured, we have our own version of the "board" too.  :)


Memorial for HH Pope Shenouda

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