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another attack on Christians
  • Another attack occurred on a train in Samalout, a city within EL Minia in Egypt where a policemen opened fire at a Copt killing him and injuring another 5 all of whom were Copts. Authorities said he is mentally unstable under the care of an Egyptian psychiatrist, and that he opened fire aimlessly. Trust me I'm not making things up. I hope I can hear masr's opinions if his account hasn't been deactivated...
    Oujai
  • http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12165523

    Where did you hear that he was mentally unstable?
  • A link on Facebook showed an Egyptian program presented by the respectable (sarcasm) Mrs. Lamees el hadeedy had a phone call from the reporter in el Minia who confirmed he is unstable. This kind of instability apparently never ever manifested in his job as a policeman until he boarded the train off duty and SAW RED.... hehe... really can't laugh any harder...
    Oujai
  • Kind of reminds you of Arizona.

    I guess they used it as an excuse to get rid of someone.  I guess a parallel Universe.
  • Ya ra bo raham,
    Lord have mercy,
    Kirie Eleison,
    Cyril
  • There is yet nothing to indicate that this man was intentionally trying to kill Copts or if he was on a random shooting spree. We shouldn't be quick to jump to conclusions, let's wait until the dust settles and the truth emerges. May God his soul regardless.
  • He couldn't be unstable, i know egypt sucks with common sense but i am sure they are smart enough to know whether a deputy is crazy and they will remove him from the force.
  • DEar Michael,
    It seems you aren't actually following the news. A telephone conversation with one of the victims in the hospital revealed that the man got on the train, scanned people from one end to the other, decided who were Christian (by the appearance of women who aren't veiled and wearing the Cross), turned back to them, shouted allaho akbar, and started shooting at them...
    And in case you haven't predicted: police fired tear gas and beat Christians with electric batons, families outside the hospital, and others demonstrating in front of el Minia cathedral as it is called...
    May God have mercy and forgive...
    Oujai
  • May God aid his people through hard times and may He have mercy on the people acting out of blindness and ignorance. Amen.
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=10441.msg126869#msg126869 date=1294800117]
    DEar Michael,
    It seems you aren't actually following the news. A telephone conversation with one of the victims in the hospital revealed that the man got on the train, scanned people from one end to the other, decided who were Christian (by the appearance of women who aren't veiled and wearing the Cross), turned back to them, shouted allaho akbar, and started shooting at them...
    And in case you haven't predicted: police fired tear gas and beat Christians with electric batons, families outside the hospital, and others demonstrating in front of el Minia cathedral as it is called...
    May God have mercy and forgive...
    Oujai


    According to CNN, he shouted "there is no other god but Allah" whilst he fired at them.

    It's dead easy to distinguish who is Muslim and who is Christian in Egypt.

    All the support we are seeing and the solidarity from Muslims over last weeks attack is just a facade. It is hypocrisy. They want to show the world that they care, but it's nothing more than marketing.


  • Of course Zoxsasi... well said
    Oujai
  • I am deeply saddened by what had happened.

    I just can't imagine siting on a train with my mom and my sister and someone comes shoots my mom, shoots my sister and then shoots me.
    I mean, How messed up is that!!!

    I trust that God is in control and that he uses these evil events for our good but I am just sad, very sad.

    And the thing that makes me angry is that after this happened, the media said that it is most likely that the guy who did it is mentally unstable. Also why, in the world, would the police through the tear gas on the hospital???????

    May the Lord repose the one person who was martyred, heal and comfort the sick and strengthens all of us.
    Ebnyasoo3
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=10441.msg126855#msg126855 date=1294786561]
    Another attack occurred on a train in Samalout, a city within EL Minia in Egypt where a policemen opened fire at a Copt killing him and injuring another 5 all of whom were Copts. Authorities said he is mentally unstable under the care of an Egyptian psychiatrist, and that he opened fire aimlessly. Trust me I'm not making things up. I hope I can hear masr's opinions if his account hasn't been deactivated...
    Oujai



    too bad no one cares about this news out of the coptic world. everyone is following the arizona stuff and the australian flood. muslims and atheists run the world. they do not want to broadcast anything that has to do with christians or religion.
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=10441.msg126869#msg126869 date=1294800117]
    DEar Michael,
    It seems you aren't actually following the news. A telephone conversation with one of the victims in the hospital revealed that the man got on the train, scanned people from one end to the other, decided who were Christian (by the appearance of women who aren't veiled and wearing the Cross), turned back to them, shouted allaho akbar, and started shooting at them...
    And in case you haven't predicted: police fired tear gas and beat Christians with electric batons, families outside the hospital, and others demonstrating in front of el Minia cathedral as it is called...
    May God have mercy and forgive...
    Oujai



    Firstly, please check your inbox for a personal message I've sent.

    Secondly, as I said in my post, and which remains true, the details at the time this thread was created (as well as when I wrote my post) were far from complete and there was yet no indication that this was anything more than a random crime. In fact, the article is still being updated, the last update being just over 17 hours ago, where as my post was 20 hours ago. Indeed, it was most likely to be a targeted attack, but there is no point in coming to conclusions before having all the details.

    He couldn't be unstable, i know egypt sucks with common sense but i am sure they are smart enough to know whether a deputy is crazy and they will remove him from the force.



    It does in fact look like he was mentally unstable, and these things often go undetected until its far too late. I'm sure there are many such stories in the USA, but one recent one from here in Ontario, Canada is the commander of a military base (an extremely high ranking official) had been viciously stalking and killing females for several years. Obviously he is mentally unstable, but no one had been able to put the pieces together and realize he was until it was too late.

    All the support we are seeing and the solidarity from Muslims over last weeks attack is just a facade. It is hypocrisy. They want to show the world that they care, but it's nothing more than marketing.



    I fail to see how this individual's actions represent all Muslims in Egypt in any way. Even if 99% of Muslims in Egypt hate our brothers and sisters, we should at the very least thank the 1% who have been showing legitimate care and solidarity. It's very bad to brand the entire religion as bad or good, simply because there is no way to examine every single Muslim and see their heart.

    I don't want this to turn into the disgusting and degrading debate in the last thread. Let us rather pray for the reposed and may God comfort his family.

    - Michael
  • Dear Michael,
    Only you know how often you go to Egypt, and how close you or your family members are to relations in Egypt. Why I say that is because you give me the impression that you're comparing Egypt to Canada. There are very big differences between the two societies. In fact incomparable. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure if you know this, but this is almost the 4th if not even the 5th or 6th incident that the Egyptian government blame it on a mentally unstable person and the purpose is clear: they will acquit him. There is no way on earth they're going to charge a muslim for killing a non-muslim under sharia law.
    Yes there probably is more than just 1% of muslims who genuinely are very good towards Christians, and they may even be better to them than Christians themselves, but the point is those people may even be called impious and infidels by their own religion...
    Oujai
  • Michael Boutros,

    You are kidding.  I hope you are.
  • Orphadece,
    What you posted was ecatly what I was going to wright.
    Which ever muslim is good to christians in not a REAL muslim and true in his/her faith.
    Their faith is all about killing the infidels as stated in their "holy" book several time.
    Cyril
  • The argument has completely strayed... you originally said all Muslims in Egypt hate Christians. Now, you're admitting that indeed some Muslims are kind towards Christians, but that these are not "real" Muslims. What does this prove? Only that we are directing our hate towards a group of people who we cannot identify nor properly title. We cannot tell who is a real or fake Muslim. Instead of looking at people based on religion, why not look at them based on their individual qualities? This person committed a horrible crime, as did many people before them. Does that mean I must hate all my brothers and sisters who are Islamic? I will be the first to say that we should not develop close relationships with them, due to these core differences, but this unabashed hate is not only useless, but completely against our teachings as Christians.

    ilovesaintmark,

    I find your comment both disrespectful and not edifying to the discussion in any manner.

    - Michael Boutros

  • Michael Boutros I totally agree with you. The hate we show against our brothers or sisters is like slapping them in the face and throwing off the cross which Christ has given us to bear. Instead of hate or blaming, we should be thanking, rejoicing, and praying for them. I don't know how the situation is over there and the stress everyone is feeling, because I am in the peaceful haven of Canada, but non-the-less I have shown hatred, anger, and judgement against my atheistic brothers here. All of my actions were not against them... instead they were against our Lord Jesus Christ. It is extremely hard not to judge another, but the judgement we make will be the same repaid to us. Also we are called to be the light of the world...in the world not of the world... and those who see us loving, blessing, and loving others as Christ loves us, will see God glory and mercy. Please pray for me God bless.
  • Dear Michael and servant of Jesus Christ,
    I am not sure where in anyone's posts previously anybody may have alluded to us hating them. It's very true as you say this is against all Christian teaching. What at least I am trying to say is that if you look in the quran meticulously enough you'll see hatred towards all other religions. The whole dilemma is that western countries are secular, and America may only involve themselves in what their benefit will lead them to but not necessarily protect Copts or Christians in any other country for that matter.
    Now look at what islam did to Christianity in Iraq, Indonesia, Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Nigeria, Sudan, and Egypt. Look at what they did in India. Look at what they are doing in Afghanistan. Look at what they did to America, UK, France, Spain, Sweden, etc, just about every country in the world. They are trying with the Jews, but they probably found their match and Israel is of course supported by USA.
    So in the end, it is not wrong to generalize because that's the pattern, and it's the sole pattern recurring over and over again.
    As for us Christians we continue to show them peace and pray for them as for ourselves, and our God alone is the merciful and just Judge.
    Oujai
  • Michael,

    Your assumptions about my comments are correct.
  • I like getting my message across in less than a paragraph.
  • OK, the latest now. Egyptian governmental minister denied that the murderer is mentally unstable, but still maintained that he fired bullets aimlessly and randomly. This is interesting. My take on that is the first statement to pacify the fuming Christians... the second to drop the charges of murder, and downgrade it to something like wrongfully shooting innocent people (sorry my legal terminology is as good as my Chinese is), and don't forget he's a policeman so he can end up with a couple of years in prison suspended sentence.... let's wait and see
    Oujai
  • ilovesaintmark,

    I find your comment both disrespectful and not edifying to the discussion in any manner.

    - Michael Boutros



    I'm offended by this comment. I'm sure Jimmy is crying too.



  • my ancestors came from Samalut  :(
  • I completly agree with what orphadece is saying. That is a fact, but we also can't forget what Micheal Boutros is saying.
    As it says in their book, kill the infidels, it also says in our book, love one another, love your enemy, if someone slapps you on your right or left, give him/her the other (not direct quotes). As we are pointing our a FACT that real muslims kill and muslims by name love, the same goes for us christians. If a christian desides to kill, that doesn't mean that we support that. We love and we are supposed to, they hate and kill, as they are supposed to.
    This might sound all confusing but...
    LET US PRAY so that they might realize the consequences to their action and so that the world may be full of peace.
    God bless, Let us ALL pray,
    Cyril
  • We should not hate any persons.

    But it seems to me to be entirely proper for us to have a clear idea of those philosophies and ideologies which have been set up against the Church and against that which is good.

    We would not say, 'We must not criticise Nazism'. It seems to me that we should not say, 'We must not criticise Islam'. This is the state that Islam wishes us to be placed in. For a time in the West we can still criticise.

    There were some good Nazis. But Nazism was evil. To say that Nazism was evil is not to say that everyone who was associated with Nazism was evil. But it is to say that the philosophy of Nazism was evil, and the more a person became imbued with that ideology, the more they were compromised, and their own activities would become corrupted by it.

    The differences between Christians who commit crimes and those from some other groups, is that Christians do not claim that the reason they have acted in an evil manner is for the glory of God, while many of the members of some other groups do entirely and completely commit evil in the name of their god and their ideology. The Irish terrorists who set of a bomb in my own town may or may not have considered themselves Catholics, but they did not kill soldiers BECAUSE they were Catholics, but because they were Irish.

    When all the bombs went off in London, those who committed these atrocities did not do so because they were Pakistani, but because of some other identity and ideology.

    I don't think I need to be more specific.
  • [quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10441.msg126951#msg126951 date=1294952095]
    We would not say, 'We must not criticise Nazism'. It seems to me that we should not say, 'We must not criticise Islam'. This is the state that Islam wishes us to be placed in. For a time in the West we can still criticise.

    There were some good Nazis. But Nazism was evil. To say that Nazism was evil is not to say that everyone who was associated with Nazism was evil. But it is to say that the philosophy of Nazism was evil, and the more a person became imbued with that ideology, the more they were compromised, and their own activities would become corrupted by it.


    Muslims have a choice. Unless they live in Saudi Arabia, they can convert and have a chance living.  I know so many converts in my church alone who converted from Islam and they talk about how wrong it is and how ignorant of a religion it is.  Ok many are not converting because of fear but the fact that most of these people are ignorant to their own religion says something.  Did the Nazis reject Nazism and see it wrong once they saw other views of life? No they did not and that is why they were held accountable for their crimes in Nuremberg.  The Muslims have Christianity right in front of them.  The fact that they keep rejecting it and attacking it (I do not care if they reject it but they have no reason to attack it) makes them evil in my eyes. I do not hate them, I just think they are evil. Not all of them but many of them (through their own actions)
  • I am not quite sure where you disagree with me?
  • [quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10441.msg126957#msg126957 date=1294955576]
    I am not quite sure where you disagree with me?


    :D :D woopss. I did at first but then i realized i was wrong about what i was writing so i erased it. i guess i forgot to erase that part also! i will change it.
  • Pray....Pray..... Pray. Turn your anger to prayers. Do what you can, and never forget that God has a plan.
  • That last part rhymed.
    BTW, muslims who do not act according to the quran, might aswell be considered atheists.
    Thanks,
    Cyril
  • [quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10441.msg126962#msg126962 date=1294959044]
    That last part rhymed.
    BTW, muslims who do not act according to the quran, might aswell be considered atheists.
    Thanks,
    Cyril


    i said the same thing when i was talking to my friend about this. they do not know their religion or understand their book.  if you are a muslim and you are not killing non-muslims then you are not a true muslim. the same thing with us. if we are not loving our enemies (including muslims -__-) then we are not true Christians... at least we can admit that!


Memorial for HH Pope Shenouda

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