Another dual topic because they go hand in hand: about Martyrs....

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Question 1: A lot of JEWS died in World War 1.... for their religion... they did nothng wrong...
So would we consider them martyrs... and what will happen to them... they can't go to Heaven rite?

Question 2: If the end of the world comes and lets say ur martyred for ur belief in Christ.... but u die with sins on u..... (and st paul says, the wages of the sin is death) will u go to Heaven cuz no way a copt with the crown of martyrdom will go to Hell, rite? I mean God is merciful, and obviously if u gave ur life (which is really His) back to Him, u'd go to heaven rite?

Just asking....
Thanks guys...


  • marmar, nobody can answer your questions because no1 is god. it depends on the person and specific situation for both of your questions.
  • Of course nobody knows this right answer but here's what I think...
    They may have been dying for their religion, but were they dying for Christ? Probably not...Muslims die for their religion all the time (terrorist attacks are an example), but does that mean they go to heaven? But then again, I don't judge them!
    Peace and God Bless...Take care.
  • Correct me if m wrong ..caz m no historian ...but Jews didnt die for their religion in world war one.... it was more complicated then that given that much of it was RACIAL issue. So it wasnt like they had a choice to die. If you were jewish or of jewish decent you didnt have a chance to convert so that you were saved. IF YOU WERE JEWISH YOU DIED.... therefore there was no intention in it... ie. ITS NOT MARTYRDOM in any way.

    Also, just because you die for a cause it doesnt mean you go to heaven. For example... there are people who die on Space missions... sum call them martyrs for science because they are pushing limits in that way and risking their life while doing so... but wat does that have to do with knowing God.... NUTHING :-\ m afraid...

    As for your second question... if you die without confessing certain sins... or are martyred with sins you commited and have no yet confessed... you do go to heaven. Its Christ's blood that covers our sins (not to sound too protestant there) but you must trust in God's Mercy. He died for us for a reason... because with just works you go no where...watsoever. He came and diied for us and as longas you lead a righteous life and struggle against temptation and partake regularly of the sacraments and are honest in your Walk with God, you shouldnt fear and must trust that He is able and Willing to Save you as you have done your part and He has died for you and paid the price for this sin. I believe it is the blood of the lamb that has paid the price for these leftover sins.
  • copt4life that was so beatiful couldnt have said it better myself ;)
  • Whatever evil I might think about my own country, we must remember that many Christians of the first few centuries were soldiers in the (pre-Constantine) Roman army (St. Longinus, etc.). The Church certainly did not condemn such people (although there were certain strictures such as waiting 40 days after killing someone in a war before they could take Communion). So to answer your question: no, people who die for their country are not "martyrs".....but, no, they don't necessarily go to hell for dying or killing for their own country either. If the latter were the case, then certain unavoidable questions arise, such as: do Copts serving in the U.S. military who die in Iraq go to heaven or hell?.....or do the Syrian Orthodox soldiers in the Iraqi military (yes, there are some) go to heaven or hell? Think about such things.
  • alright heres what i think...
    the jews i dunno really what would happen to them cause i dont think they got martyred cause of thier faith it was was because of ww1 or was it ww2? i dunno lol anyways....but as if ur askin if somebody dies as a martyr and his life was full of sins...well ill give u a good example...what about the right thief?? in the 6th hour in good friday we say "by his faith he stole the kindom of heaven and the paradise of delight" so really u can steal it in a couple of seconds. and if u shed ur blood on the name of christ, that means u really love him and u wont let go of him because of no matter what, u think he'll look back at your sins? i dont think so, god is so merciful and he knows that we are weak and unworthy...plz keep me in ur prayers

    in christ
  • Copt4life and kiro, you 2 put into words where i found myself speechless. the thing is if you love god and are willing to give your life (which is his) back, then i dont think after that he's gonna say, remember when you yelled at your little i mean with the blood you shed you covered your sins. plus we were talking about this be4. if you repented but didnt have a chance to confess, you're still forgiven.
  • Well 4 the second question MarMar had...well I remembered that I had the same question and therefore I asked a Bishop and he told me that when u r martyred, u get another baptism with ur blood which means that all ur sins r forgiven so u pretty much go to Heaven with no sin held up against u (judgement day). I mean I think this is why most of the martyrs r actually willing to be martyred.
  • I will attemp to answer the two questions:

    1) The only way to the Lord is through Jesus. Jesus said this. If you research the Bible you'll find the exact text and passage.
    Jesus did not say there are exceptions. This is not a contract with small prints.
    I can therefore say that anybody that does not believe in Jesus will not go heaven.

    The interesting area to consider is that not every one is as lucky as you and I to have access to the Bible. I see many people from other faiths that live in an environment that only exposes their children to a different religion and nothing else. Is it just? Will God treat them any different because of their circumstances? I have no idea and as many of you do way "only God knows". I will say that in our church we have a great responsibility towards children from birth, baptism through to adulthood to avoid such scenarios (Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”- Matthew 19:14)

    2) I think to enter Heaven you have to without sin (error free - if I may use that expression). Say you start the day in church, you confess all, you take communion and then before you could sin again for some reason you die, then you will go to heaven. If between confession and communion you sin and die - say in the example you leave the church and come onto this website and upset a lot of people or sinned in someway, then how could God let you enter heaven alongside others that are without sin. Naturally this highlight the importance of confession and commuion. However without side-tracking too much, I do not belive you'll go to heaven. What we can be sure is that we cannot just pick and chose the bits from the Bible or Church that we like or that fits with our life styles and assum that it's enough. Its not a court case where one is hoping for a majourity decision with worst case senario of a failed case or even a hunged jury. Its not an exame where 75% gets a grade A. One has to get 100%.
    That is why it is important to live a Christian life (work, friends, strangers, the whole things etc....) with regular and frequent confession and commuion. If you know that you have sinned but cannot make it (in time or else) to see your priest, remember that you have a relationship with God and you sould talk to him (as I'm sure you do all day and every day) and confess to him and ask for his forgiveness.

    Do not be clouded with different scenarios. Irrespect of the situation it is clear what one has to do to enter the kindom of heaven. You may not agree with this but I've tried to address the issue as best I can.
  • Deano, I think it's a lot more complicated than that. I doubt that if someone like Pope Kyrillos VI died immediately after some minor infraction that he'd go to hell.

    But make sure that you ask your Church to say many prayers for you after you die and tell people to give alms in your name. Do all this before you will die so that just in case you do go to hell, their prayers and good deeds in your name might be able to move God's Mercy to get you out of there!
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