drinking

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  • wait u guys, u mean we're only gonna stop at 7 pages?!?!
    i was shooting for 11 here :D
  • LOL ok SMS why doesn't our church have an offical statement on drinking? ;) ;) jk jk
  • lololol. PEOPLE - Wasim was joking!!! lol. This discussion officially ended 4 posts ago. Please dont post here until you've read everyone's opinions so we dont repeat ourselves and please only ask questions related to the topic. Thank you.

    - Chris
  • what do you think of drinking? Assuming you are of age and all

    ^original words.... haha, ny opinions?
    okay, ill stop now... it was fun while it lasted people!
  • Is it over?
  • u seem disappointed... i think it's safe to say <looks around for unsuspecting posters>.... this one is over.
    moving on... :)
  • Pronounced on the 7th of June 2004 over!

    Moving on to prom and dancing thread!

    LOL!

    Defender
  • It it good to end a drinking thread with a story about how pope shenoute was asked the same question that was asked originally.

    Are we allowed to drink?

    He replied, yes of course we can drink, I'm drinking now, before taking a sip of water.

    GB,

    CS
  • LOL! I just love Pope Shenoda III, he is soo smart Be2esm el Salib! Anyone else admires him?


    Defender
  • I do! hes wonderful!
  • So do I. He's so hilarious when you ask him such questions that may go against our beliefs. God bless him, and keep him for many peaceful times. ;)

    sleepy
  • I've never met him in my life......


    :'(

    I also wanna see Ommena Iriny,


    God Willing I will


    Defender
  • You should meet him. He's a great guy.
    Who's Ommena Iriny?

    sleepy
  • Mother Iriny in Filopateer Marcorious Monastery in Egypt
  • wow.... so many people i havent heard about
    come to America one time and ull get to see HH lol... awesome guy!
  • When does H.H. usually come??


    Defender
  • He usually visits the East Coast around August.
  • i think he goes to the west after that, comes back to the east for a day or two, then goes back to egypt.
  • ok i know we said we came to a conclusion to the drinking thing but i found a verse that was a bit interesting at least to me with respect to drinking
    18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, "He has a demon.' 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, "Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by her children" Matt 11
    and the word "drinking" in the arabic Bible is 7amer = booz (sorry if i didn't write the arabic word right if someone out there knows how to write it right please do)
  • Actually it's 5amr or 7'amr...

    God Bless.

    Mike
  • [quote author=Wasim link=topic=298.msg2652#msg2652 date=1085710294]
    what do you think of drinking? Assuming you are of age and all


    I see nothing wrong with it, so long as its done in moderation. Christ changed water to wine for a marriage. It means that it was a problem: There was no alcohol.

    Having said that, the ONLY Church that does not allow alcohol to be drunk in its Church halls is the Coptic Church (The Armenian, Indian, Ethiopian, Greek, Russian, Catholics etc) ALL allow alcohol to be drunk for baptisms or weddings.

    I think this goes back again to what's culture and what's spirituality.
  • Well, i think it is bad the way you use it- like if you drink alot and get drunk alot it is harming you and it's a sin. But when you get older some drinks are good for your heart if you drink once in a while, so thats why some people drink some times
  • well i guess if drinking is ok...why not expereince all otha drugs prevalent in this world...drinking quite often leads to other dangerous habits...to be honest id rather smoke than drink..why?? becoz smoking doesnt infleunce your behaviour or impair your brain's functioning.....i find there are plenty more alternatives to celebrating than drinking........so many lives have been lost and ruined and it all started with a glass.........
  • I think if you ban alcohol, you will just increase the attraction of it. I have sensible drinking habits I believe. I only drink a glass with family on very solemn occasions. Beer...that's just disgusting. And how many calories! By the way, any amount of alcohol is toxic to your liver- but it has some protective effects for the heart that is lost with just one serve above.

    Do you know how people talk about good and bad cholesterol? Well alcohol at one drink a day, can increase good cholesterol and decrease bad cholesterol. One more drink, and the reverse happens. And this must be an ongoing thing.

    Alcohol is linked with many problems. The worst being that beer gut lol. I am apparently underweight- and I want to keep it that way :P It causes a lot of brain problems (neuropathies esp. cereballar dysfunction and cerebral atrophy), liver problems (cirrhosis) and Gut problems (ulcers, bleeds that can be fatal).

    So if you can stick to one drink a day for a few days a week, I think that is all right. But binge drinking, or drinking any more than what I found to be acceptable clinically speaking, is dangerous to not only your health but your image of God.

  • [quote author=Doubting Thomas link=topic=298.msg72919#msg72919 date=1182352414]
    I think if you ban alcohol, you will just increase the attraction of it. I have sensible drinking habits I believe. I only drink a glass with family on very solemn occasions. Beer...that's just disgusting. And how many calories! By the way, any amount of alcohol is toxic to your liver- but it has some protective effects for the heart that is lost with just one serve above.

    Do you know how people talk about good and bad cholesterol? Well alcohol at one drink a day, can increase good cholesterol and decrease bad cholesterol. One more drink, and the reverse happens. And this must be an ongoing thing.

    Alcohol is linked with many problems. The worst being that beer gut lol. I am apparently underweight- and I want to keep it that way :P It causes a lot of brain problems (neuropathies esp. cereballar dysfunction and cerebral atrophy), liver problems (cirrhosis) and Gut problems (ulcers, bleeds that can be fatal).

    So if you can stick to one drink a day for a few days a week, I think that is all right. But binge drinking, or drinking any more than what I found to be acceptable clinically speaking, is dangerous to not only your health but your image of God.




    Guys, im talking about just moderate drinking.. such as wine etc.

    Actually, in France, drinking wine is obligatory in meals & weddings etc. Not liquer.. I mean, are u all talking about whiskey etc???

    If u are talking about malibu and whiskey etc, then this doesnt even taste nice. In fact, we use mainly as a medicament to help us if we are sooo cold and freezing.

  • Interesting looking back through this one.

    Could one summarise as follows:

    There is nothing in the Orthodox Faith that bans the use of alcohol; indeed, despite what one earlier poster wrote, there is no firm evidence that in turning water into wine, Our Lord turned it into grape juice; it was wine - the alcoholic sort that still gets served at weddings in many countries.

    That conceded, there is everything in the practice of the Faith that speaks against the excessive use of wine. For much the reasons offered on the 'smoking' thread, excessive use of alcohol is sinful: it can become an addiction; it can cause you to harm yourself and others; it can remove your senses in a way that leads you into very sinful behaviour.

    Therefore, let us use, with sense and moderation the gifts which the Lord has given us;  if we have not the sense or the strength to do that, let us abstain rather than run the risks of drinking too much. My eldest son, who is a Baptist pastor, decided some years ago to abstain totally from alcohol, but he does so as an exercise in asceticism - a sacrifice to the Lord of something he likes. His brother, who is also a devout man, drinks in moderation. From the point of view of Christian doctrine, neither of them is more correct than the other.

    Does that take us towards a consensus?

    In Christ,

    Anglian
  • Wine/alcohol drinks that increase a person to lofty spirit is certainly not banned but there are lots of saying and instruction and commandments that teach us to be very careful.
    There are so many proverbs on wine drinking and the idea of being drunk I guess after reading through everyone posts every one realises that drinking wine/alcohol and becoming drunk is no use bad for heath and definitely separates one from God I hope everyone has befitted up to this point up till now in this 8 pg discussion of “drinking”!

    To reafrim if a person goes out to get drunk as someone earlier said what is his objective then, it is get fun  and party and enjoy right. To increase ur spirits and bring u to a good mood. Well this would be good if one could keep sin out it but is not so the case in being supposedly happy by drinking and elevating oneself to the effects of drinking also elevates one self to pleasure of the flesh and invariantly increases ur chance to commit sin in the flesh. The biggest reason why this happens and a person falls is because drinking takes the fear of God away from a person. Drinking gives the soul and flesh charge over the spirit. Wisdom and knowledge usually forfeit a person when he is drunk. I bet all of u who have being drunk have experienced this.


    Whoever wishes to repent should keep himself from
    drinking wine, for much drink dismisses the fear of God
    from the heart. Rather, he should ask the Lord to put His
    fear in his heart in order that he may conquer all sins.
    By abba isaiah

    Instruction 6:
    If anyone presents wine, do not by any means drink a lot
    and do not break the commandments for the sake of
    friendship.
    Explanation:
    Stay away from wine as much as possible; do not add fire
    to other fires, lest you should fall into the sin of adultery.
    This instruction is very useful to both youth and elders
    who love purity. Wine creates desire and anger, because if
    the veins are full of wine, a person will be unable to
    control himself, thus falling into the sin of anger

    .


    So getting drunk is wrong going out to get drunk and party is wrong is a sin all of us who go out and loose our selves into drinking is as sin as much as adultery.

    When is it right to drink.

    I believe it is right to drink when people are drinking not for the sake of getting happy by being intoxicated with alcohol but rather when there is a special occasion or so even then becoming a drunk should be refrained from and everyone should bring about the quick judgement of oneself to the fact that if he is getting tipsy best to leave straight away or to isolate themselves and allow the alcohol to wear off. That is good and cannot be seen as sin because u have done a righteous deed in trying to control ur self. If one the other hand, a person abuses alcohol because it is his sister’s weeding he is in sin and therefore is prone to commit sin.

    Also those of us have a great desire to gfet drunk should remember the verse below and weep for themselves to falling for sour wine(white wine) brought pain and discomfort and everything opposite to what one gets from drinking.

    “After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now
    accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said,
    “I thirst!” Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting
    there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on
    hyssop, and put it to His mouth. So when Jesus had
    received the sour wine. He said, “It is finished!” and
    bowing His head, He gave up His spirit” (John 19:28-30).

    Below is a great meditation by abba Isaiah on the process of fermentation and how something as this can be seen as a opportunity to grow towards God.

    Some good advice that was given to monks and could be seen as beneficial.


    If there is a need to drink some wine, do not exceed
    three sips, and do not break the commandment for the sake
    of friendship.
    Do not love wine, lest it should hinder your love to
    God.

    ABOUT DRINKING WINE
    The process of fermentation can be liken to one’s
    spiritual progress:
    There is a hidden mystery in the process of fermentation,
    which is liken to the human nature that wishes to meet
    God in purity, and keeps his deeds clean so that he Lord
    might accept them.
    The basin in which the wine is kept is well painted
    and varnished, which is likened to the purity of the body,
    whose members are pure and protected against all the
    shameful sins. A person who is still a slave even to one
    sin can never serve the Lord. Likewise with wine, it
    cannot be poured in a cracked basin or a basin which is not
    well varnished.
    Let us test ourselves, for we cannot please God if
    there is any hatred or envy within us, because these hinder
    repentance.
    In the beginning, the wine is fermented, and this
    signifies our youth; it is a period of restless until we settle
    down.
    The wine remains for a while in order to settle
    down, in the same way that a youth can never attain
    calmness and meditation unless he retreats and mortify his
    senses according to God’s will.
    If any seeds or germs are left in the wine, it
    becomes vinegar, so to the nature of the youth: if he lives
    among those who do not have the fear of God, he spoils
    the traditions which were passed down to him by his
    forefathers.
    If we leave the wine pot uncovered, flies and insects
    will be attracted to it and rot the wine, in the same way
    that our souls will rot if we give room to talking, laughing
    and murmuring.
    If we expose wine to the air, its colour and taste will
    change, so to does pride destroy any good fruits in a
    human being. In cellars, wine is hidden and covered, and
    this is the way that we should retreat and deny ourselves.
    Having made wine, the wine maker rejoices to see
    the fruits of his labour. In like manner, a person should
    care to produce spiritual fruits so that God might accept
    his works. If there is any crack in the wine pot, the wine
    will seep out and onto the ground, even without the owner
    noticing. Likewise, a small sin that may seem unnoticeable
    in the soul, may destroy all the fruits of a monk if he is
    careless.


    forgive me if i have offended anyone.
  • this was meant to come before the above post

    Everyone here has made some great valid points. For those of u confused about the mystery of Eucharist should go back to the topic of confession and communion  and should read…. also don’t bring it down to such a view of it being bread and wine and the fact it what it is  not but only our faith and not in reality such a doubt is enmity against the mystery it self just believe what is said and interrupted by our fathers and leave the rest as mystery so as u don’t elevate ur self above the mystery approach it in awe, fear and reverence least u be judged on the judgment day!!!!!!!
  • drinking wine is not a sin.  but the sinful part is when u get drunk.  thatz a sinn..  but obviously u no what it leads to.  jesus himself drank wine.  put probably lke onli one glass.  but i hope u get the point.  well do  ya.  lol

    plz  p4m
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