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Coptic Orthodox Church
Church youth going down a hill
i know what u mean Mary and i think maybe they are telling us no dating period becuase they went through that exprience before and got more hurt than helped. But the thing is that teenagers including me are very stubborn and we usualy don't listen until we go through an experience ourselves than believe what others are saying. And i think that is what my entire church is going through
but you don't have to get burned to know that the fire is hot...
[glow=red,2,300]true[/glow] but again teenagers in my church are stubborn that includes me too
but i will try to work with them and see
but i doubt any meeting between me and the ss classes will be held anytime soon
[quote author=Marys link=board=1;threadid=84;start=60#msg2590 date=1085625958]
but you don't have to get burned to know that the fire is hot...
"Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
[glow=red,2,300]Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.[/glow]
No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man
; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."
[move]1 Corinthians 10: 1-13[/move]
Well, first of all, awesome verses SMS,
Second, if I am correctly understanding what u mean, ur thoughts is, I need to try it to know it's wrong , my response to that is I like what H.G. Bishop Moussa said "Everyday we pray saying "..lead us not into temptation..." and by dating we are leading ourselves into the temptation.
I'd like to clarify something, I am 100% for dating that leads to marriage not dating for fun or anything similar..
u c, the way i c it is that ur hiking up this mountain, a really steep mountain... i know sounds dumb, but bear with me here... so ur going up this really steep mountain and u hit a fork in the dirt path... one big sign says DANGER, DO NOT ENTER... then u c a biggggg arrow pointing to the right side path
okay, so u totally avoid BOTH signs, and u chose to take the path that says danger, but isnt chained up (this is where we c how God gives us free will, yet he WARNS US!!!, and we decide to completelyyyyyy ignore his warning and go where we think we should go!) so on that path, we get hurt, fall a few times, get attacked by a couple of bears, and dont forget, u have no weapons to fight these wild beasts with... so by the time u realize u made a mistake, ur all bruised up and bleeding, u've been attacked by several animals, and
ur alive, u wish u were dead... but chances r ur not alive, so for the sake of repentence, say u are alive, and u decide to turn back... so u run, as fast as u can,b ack to the path where u saw this fork... and u c that its still there, safe and souond.... u took ur own way, ur own "stubborn" way, u got hurt, and now u know which way to take...
so which way do u decide?
^[glow=blue,2,300]GOD's ARROW of SALVATION!!![/glow]
thats right... u follow the arrow
sry, just another one of my daily ramblings
i see what you mean SMS BUT i am not saying the youth in my church are going to go date, kiss, and all that stuff no what i am saying is that we want to know what is dating about BUT under church rules. So not leaving God's hand but more like walking and asking for assistance from Him.
dont u love the direction the arrow is moving in? loll, sry guys, didnt realize it
its supposed to go that way >
anywayz... i get what u mean wfhanna1... that example is just used for like everyhting, not just dating..
as for u... the church really doesnt
an official stand point on this matter... if u read those 11 pages, ull know the matter of dating is painful without even needing an official document stating the church disapproves of it.
i think that when it all comes down to it, its ur conciousness that tells u what to do, and if ur conciousness is pure and true, the way God gave it to u, itll tel u to do the right rather than the wrong... but if u continually do the wrong, ull forget the right
the church tells us not to do several things... dont drink, dont do drugs, dont wear revealing fashions, dont get into fights, dont curse, but we do them all anywayz, so what difference would it make here?
I think the only border I found is the best border ever, and this border is [glow=red,2,300]What Would Jesus Do?[/glow]
Think of it this way, what is the purpose of dating for fun?? Nothing, eventually u'll break up with all these pains and jealousy will develop in ur heart and soon when u finally realize that ur dying a seriously painful slooooow death u'll be demolished, just like SMS said. We are in the world but not of it...., just because other people date, kiss, practice adultrey doesn't mean we can do that too...
Hope that helped...
well SMS for the first 3 things there are limits on it. If you drink one beer one wine or whatever level until which you know you won't get drunk i think that is ok and don't forget the Lord's first mircale was converting water into wine. Second drugs you take drugs every single day of your life but their are drugs that you take for a reason and other that you take for NO REASON at all and fashion you wear some certain fashion in church and some outside church
There are limits for everything
i think u TOTALLY missed my point there... but its okay
my point was, if the church DOES have a stated opinion on it... it wont matter because people will rebel against it either way
God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit, they were tempted, and ate something as small as a fruit
we on the other hand, overcome the small temptations, but cant avoid the big ones
we are the children of Adam and Eve, and if the church/God tells us, dont do this.. we will... or 'do that', we won't
and as for drinking... drinking alcohol is drinking, its harming ur body which is God's gift to you, doesnt matter how much u drink.. and i dont c what ur point is with water turning into wine... the wine back then didn't have alcohol in it like it does today...
when i said drugs, i did not imply medical drugs, i meant illegal drugs... u know where im going with this...
3rd... the things u go to church wearing, respectfully, is the same clothes u should wear to school or outside the church just as well... for respect to urself and others...
as for dating and whatever other sins, dont be so concerned with reaching that line of impurity
if u take a piece of paper, and draw a line in the middle, and draw a person on the far top, and a person really close to the line... this line is the line of impurity, and this paper is like mankind... the person at the top is pure and tries their best not to sin, and stays away from temptation, meanwhile, the person right next to the line is soo buzy thinking that they shouldnt cross that line, yet they dont realize how close they are too it...
so if u ask me... there are no limits... only morals
if u value ur virginity, u wont go that far
if u value ur hand, u wont hold hands
if u value ur eyes, u wont look into another persons eyes or look at evil things
if u value ur ears, u wont hear evil things...
hear no evil, see no evil, do no evil, glorify God and have lots of fun!
so for everybody thats been asking what are the borders and limits... there are none
us as humans just find the line between right and wrong and try to make excuses up for everything 'i told a little white lie' sounds better than a plain 'i lied'
'i stole a loaf of bread' vs. 'i stole a diamond bracelet' etc etc...
i hope u guys go tthe idea
Great response, it explained a lot to me, I guess I am that kinda guy so close to the line and still seeking the line...
Pray 4 me
lol you can never be too late!
wfhanna, u said u wanted to hold a meeting, but u cant because of several reasons. here is a solution.
hold it someplace else, like a park, trip someplace, or even ur house. the apostles started preaching in houses.
and i hate to dissappoint u but some people, no matter how many times u tell them dating is wrong, they still date, i have that problem at my church.
hope this helped
Suzanne, this subject is definietly where the devil strikes me hard...
In reading the Bible and all that, the problem can be solved if I'm not lazy, but this problem is not in my hands....
I’m defiantly not the right person to be talking to you about reading the bible because to be honest I can’t do it every single day without struggling or having second thoughts.
Laziness isn’t something that only affects one or two people but often affects everyone. From saints to sinners, from the young to the old. I guess no-one has a perfect spiritual life which doesn’t consist of ups and downs. Spiritual lives kinda have a boom and bust stage. One day it’s high and before you know it its rock bottom. Someone once told me you can’t put your spiritual life on hold because with God there is no 'hold'. If you aren’t excelling in your relationship with God then your defiantly falling further away from Him.
I guess all we can do is struggle- if we struggle yet do not succeed God will surely know what is in our hearts, and (I think) will judge us according to that.
Another thing that strikes me once in a while is this- our day consists of 24 hours. 8 hours for sleeping, 9 for working/studying and 2 for eating. That leaves us with 5 hours- and it wouldn’t hurt us to get up and say a little prayer/ read a chapter of the bible (which won’t take more than half an hour) during these five hours of 'free time'. This is our god who created us- who has never and will never forget us. Surely it wouldn’t hurt us to thank him once in a while.
Pray for mee!
I was just reading past posts (pg 4-5) and I realised something in regards to dating! Ive said it once and I won’t go in too much detail but the church has not straight out confronted the issue and that’s why young youth (teens) date!
A few months ago one of our bishop held a combined youth meeting with students from year 7 to 12. Apparently, the questions submitted to his grace were so appalling that the youth had to be separated in 3 groups (7&8, 9&10 and 11&12). From what servants told me 95% of the questions were in regards to dating, physical relationships, drugs and rape!
Youth want to know these things! they interest them as well as make them curious and because the church labels these topics as 'taboo' or 'bad' the youth get their information from the media, and what there friends tell them rather than from their parents and the church. Thus, they get the worlds view (which is totally contradictory to the church’s Point of view) implanted in their small naive minds.
Wfhanna1 said that teenagers don’t want to lean until they experience for themselves and that is absolutely true! Consider this analogy:
a little child approaches a flame and think its pretty, he tries to touch it but his parents prevent him from doing so telling him it will hurt him. The child still insists on trying, and days later he manages to stick his hand close to the pretty flame- it’s only once he touches the flame and hurts himself that he realises that his parents were only doing what was best for him.
THAT’S EXACTLY like what happens with our youth! We can try and try and try to help them but comes the crunch they don’t care what their parents said or their priest they want to try for themselves.
i agree, no matter how many times the teens in my church have been in relationships, they still go out! ugghhh. some people never learn and wat can we do about it? all we can do is pray
Well, sometimes u know something's wrong yet knowing it's wrong makes you more eager to do it...that's how humans are....
That is so true.
If you tell someone not to do something, that makes them want to do it even more. egyprincess, I know where you're coming from with the dating and stuff. You know how those people are. They do it for the thrill, not for anything else. All you can do is pray for them and hope it gets better.
[quote author=Suzanne link=topic=84.msg2141#msg2141 date=1085232030]
The younger youth constantly have their parents on their back telling them not to date, drink or wear clothing which girls often find ‘in fashion’. Parents believe that by restricting their kids they will grow up to be modest, good Christians. This isn’t always the case. It’s hard for teenagers to go on- day by day- without an open minded parents or Sunday school teachers. In the world we now live in media is very influential and causes kids to do exactly the opposite of what their parents teach them. It’s not because they hate their parents or they don’t love God, but it’s more because their curious nature and often because they don’t have anyone their age to talk to. Young youth hear their parents making a constant fuss over things that may not seem ‘bad’ to others, and then they ask themselves 'why? What’s so wrong about dating?’ so they go and try exactly what their parents asked them to avoid.
Its reverse psychology. this is my theory- if there’s a box in the corner of a room chances are heaps of people will see it and only few will open it to see what’s inside BUT if the same box has DO NOT OPEN written on it the 85% of the people who pass it will approach the box in order to see what’s hiding inside.
when parents, priests and servants make a big deal about issues like dating kids want to know why its forbidden, they want to try it out for themselves (after all forbidden fruit is always more luscious). That’s where the problem starts, once you experience affection from an individual from the opposite sex you feel ‘special and happy’ and you just want more attention and love.
What you have to understand is that these kids don’t always mean to hurt God or themselves. They just want to be loved and understood. And may I add, sympathy is always nicer when it comes from the opposite sex. Youth who have boyfriends or girlfriends sometimes feel that they are SO different from their peers (who are either too spiritual and are from the church or are too wild and do not have Religion influencing their lives) and as a result feel they have no one to talk to- if they approach their friends from church they may look down at them where as if they approach their school friends they may mock and laugh at them)
You were right! These kids don’t want another set of parents they want someone who they can confined in. besides praying for them you can offer your help and your ears. If anyone wants to talk then let them know that you are willing and open. After they do talk, it’s not a lecture they want to hear, it’s more along the lines of how special they are to God and how much he loves them! Even that sometimes can scare a teenage girl away- but once you have won over trust that’s all you need.
In my church, as many others the girls feel that they can talk to particular servants. These servants are always open and never make the girls feel inferior or low. They just keep reminding them how much god loves them and how he will always forgive them no matter what they do. Once you establish a friendship with the girls, and you show them that you too are human and either a) like to talk about other things or b) make mistakes as well then they will feel much better and will talk to you often about their problems.
Parents are strict- that’s why teen’s rebel and the teens will continue to do it so long as parents try to keep a protective barrier around them. As a Sunday school teacher/servant all you can do is guide them, talk to them and defiantly pray as hard as possible for them. Hope any of this was useful
May god bless your work
i honestly believe the solution to this problem is to have a good sunday school teacher.
The teenage years is a delicate period. Its the age where its the most important time to know God, and yet because its so young, i doubt that they spend time in prayer and reading the Bible.
Not all sunday school teachers are good though. What's best is to read the Bible with them and discuss how God's word applies in our daily lives. Saint Paul was talking about women being dressed modestly for example. Do you they realise that this is a commandment of God???
Saint Paul was saying that if what you eat causes your brother to stumble, don't eat it. What then about the clothes you wear?? Will wearing this cause a man to stumble?
For such an age group, there are two forces that appeal to youth: those coming from the Church, and those coming from the World. THose coming from the world are telling these girls to do as the world does. Those coming from the Church SHOULD teach them Christ's Will. But why I'm stressing the importance of good sunday school teachers is that in most cases I've seen, the sunday school teacher enforces her/his own "Egyptianised" set of values, that are not linked with what the Bible teaches. Using words like "hallal" and "haram" would not help anyone. We are not muslim. We are Christian.
THey need honestly to look in the Bible and explain what is being said to them and how it applies to their daily lives. Period. This is not being done. God's word cuts like a nife! If its not cutting, its because its not being administered to them.
u talk in the same topic.... 4 YEARS LATER