Death and Eternity.

edited December 1969 in Youth Corner
I asked some people about babies.. who when they aren't baptized... if they would go to hell, sorry for language use. But, they said any baby NOT BAPTIZED... is still not baptized. Even if it wasn't anyone's fault that they died or departed. I was wondering if i could get some feedback on that... plz. I was thinking about that and it was bugging me REALLY bad. Becuase it would NOT be their fault.
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  • hi

    well i was wondering the same thing, and from wat i understood from abouna, was that sense god was a just and **merciful** judge he would not condem a harmless child to go "down under"
    thats wat i think abouna ment, he wasn't very clear in his explaination

    God Bless
  • it is so simple..if they grow up and they know that they aren't baptized and they didn't do anything now it is their fault but if they didn't know i am sure god will help them dealing with that!!!

    *god is so merciful*
  • All those kinda questions....there really are no answers to...cuz God did technically say that whoever is not born again through water and spirit doesnt enter the kingdom of heaven.

    However, our God is just! and we have to trust that!
    When it comes down to it he knows which inoccent babies died at birth, were aborted...etc. So hes the only one with the answer as to where there souls go. . .
  • I understand what you are all saying... it was just bugging me that the POOR helpless child who might have went through abortion be killed when it isn't his falut. Please keep writing about this.
  • abortion is wrong, it is killing, like u said, a harmless child. i feel it was influenced by radical feminizim, which i believe was influence by the devil's temptation

    God Bless
  • Abortion the baby isn't even born yet...so there is no harm in that one because there is no baby...ecept that abortion is wrong...so the parents are all in fault in that one
  • actually, the baby begins to have a heart i think within a week or two after his conception, so it does exsist soon after.

    i might be worng

    God Bless
  • Ya...it does exist but I meant not fully born and developed.
  • but it exists, and thats want matters. it is there, and alive. and developing, just like wat we do every day
  • yes it exists and it has a soul.

    and i totally do not think little kids go
    to hell if they are not baptized.
    God will only judge us if we start to
    understand or if we are old enough to
    be able to understand about the kingdom
    of God.
    so, if the parents fail to baptize the kid,
    i believe that the kid is not going to hell.
    that would not be fair at all. but of course,
    that is up to God to decide.
    peace.
  • [quote author=Marianne87 link=board=13;threadid=1822;start=0#msg27683 date=1118202273]
    Abortion the baby isn't even born yet...so there is no harm in that one because there is no baby...ecept that abortion is wrong...so the parents are all in fault in that one


    im sorry but i have 2 disagree, once the egg and sperm have fertilised and a fetus is made, its alive
  • I agree with Mazza, baby is alive from day 1.

    But as many have said, God is just and merciful. He also said "in My Father's house there are many mansions" so He has a special place for them. It is the paren't fault however if the baby is not baptized. For example, if God forbid a couple give birth to a baby and they know that he/she is sick and they will die. the parent MUST get the kid baptized as soon as possible.

    Just my 2 cents
  • [quote author=mazza link=board=13;threadid=1822;start=0#msg27699 date=1118215960]
    [quote author=Marianne87 link=board=13;threadid=1822;start=0#msg27683 date=1118202273]
    Abortion the baby isn't even born yet...so there is no harm in that one because there is no baby...ecept that abortion is wrong...so the parents are all in fault in that one


    im sorry but i have 2 disagree, once the egg and sperm have fertilised and a fetus is made, its alive


    I know that the fetus is a live being once the egg has been fertilized by the sperm, I study that, what I meant is that there is no human being, I don't know how to explain that, but I mean it's not out of its mother womb yet. It's not BORN and DEVELOPED. Yes I know abortion is kiling that innocent fetus, but that fetus doesn't have a soul yet, it doesn't even breath on its own yet. I don't know how to get this point across, but i don't think those babies will have souls in heaven and be judged. God is just and He is the one who decide what's what, none of us do...so I might be wrong in that...but that's just what I think
  • [quote author=EgYpTiAn= MoNiKa link=board=13;threadid=1822;start=0#msg27619 date=1118189669]
    I asked some people about babies.. who when they aren't baptized... if they would go to hell, sorry for language use. But, they said any baby NOT BAPTIZED... is still not baptized. Even if it wasn't anyone's fault that they died or departed. I was wondering if i could get some feedback on that... plz. I was thinking about that and it was bugging me REALLY bad. Becuase it would NOT be their fault.


    We will find out when we go there... NO ONE can tell you, because they never saw heaven or who is in HEAVEN... do not let this topic bug you... but rather be bugged about your spiritual life... and make it to the best.
  • *The mother has 2 choices

    -the right choice to have the baby

    -the wrong choice to have the baby killed in her own stomach which is a very disipline choice

    who here has heard of the book [/b]The Giver[/b] it's talks about realeasing which is like murder that they do for young and adults it is very sad well, I think that even if the baby can not get out or can not make it and it has died in the mother's stomach well, then it's ok because it's not the mother's choice but that is the same as not being pregnant and it's very harsh for people to have their baby abortioned that is very cruel!

    -God Bless-


    Nans
  • [glow=red,2,300][move]Hey Nans, i agree with you very much to the resons about a mother. I thnk before they kill the baby they should think about others who can care for the baby. I was also thinking that the Giver isnt exactly the greatest point.... becuase they still end up, in the end, together. The babies arent aborted. I still think those are very good things you bring up. There are also many decisions a mom can make but thats the first to becoming a mom. Amen to what you say. I understand what everyone thinks but i wanted some more responses. The choices still bug me on how you can kill a baby. If you wanted a baby then here it is but why would you kill it. I hate ppl who do that. Anyways keep writing your opinions. Thanks guyz.[/move][/glow]
  • sorry what i wrote didnt show up. ill write it again later.
  • i have read the book the giver it talks about a colorless society that kills babies and the boy escapes the so-called perfect society.

    oh and socoolbishoy, someone kind of saw heaven. St. John when he wrote the book of Revelation.
  • the idea that un-baptized infants will go to hell is another Roman heresy.
  • hey i heard that what u_stole_my_name said is right. you know about the un-baptized babies!!!
  • God loves the little children
  • amen to that
    god is just and merciful and its his own will, he knows what will happen- so lets leave it 2 him
  • it is not like we get to pick who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. That is Gods choice and considering the number of people he saved when he died on the cross all of them, i suspect he will save them why would he not?
  • Jesus said
    "in my fatheres house there are many mansions"
  • nice answer to all of you!!!! ;D
  • Consider this scenario;

    There is a man who sees Christ, face to face; says to him "I want to come to your kingdom"

    So he dies shortly after and is not baptized by the church

    Does he go to hell?

    No.

    This scenario is actually representative of the thief on the right hand side of Jesus who dies saying "Remember me LOrd, when you come into your kingdom"

    Jesus replied "Today you will be with me in Paradise"

    His baptisim was different then what we consider baptisim.

    I believe the defintion of Baptisim is dependent on the scenario at hand.

    For every individual who knows, much will be required. But for those who do not know, much less is required

    While I am not certain regarding this matter, there is good reason to believe that babies who die will be with their Father in Heaven;

    Refer to 2 Samuel 12: 19-22.

    (While my intention is not to read into these parts of the passage. Yet, notice the wording David uses to describe his blissful approach to his son's death.)

    "But now that he is dead, why should I fast?" (vs 23)

    (*Our Church fasts for the dead and prays on their behalf. We pray for the dead so that in the place of waiting, they may obtain peace until the Judgemnet day.
    Here, David is confident he does not need to fast for his child.)

    "I will go to him, but he will not return to me" (vs 23)
    (Notice that David does not state "i will go to the same place he is at" or "I will go where he is"; he states "I will go to him".
    This may suggest that David is confident he will see his son again and will be with him.

    We must assume David meant he would be with him again in the afterlife, and that his comfort was derived from a hope for his son and not an indifference towards his son.

    This means
    a.) David would be implying the promised salvation that he would obtain alongside his son.

    or

    b.) His reaction could have been be pure indifference towards his son's death.

    However, if I had to chose eithier two for the Patriarch David to hold, I would point to the first of the two reasonings. This ofcourse, is merely my opinion.

    Well, God bless.
  • there are many cases like that. The bible says that if someone isn't babtized but lives a good life ((i think that goes for babies that die without babtism too)) they won't See god's light. I think we can asume this means that they don't go to hell...? ??? i really don't know.
  • *I believe that a person must be Baptized to enjoy God's presence.
    I do know what is required of myself as a Coptic Orthodox in terms of the sacrament of Baptisim
    For other Chritian denominations, what precisely God premits their baptism to be, I do not know.

    Baptisim must done by Water and Spirit, but how we explicate the correct way for others to baptize by Water and Spirit, may not be for us to decide.

    I guess one should ask, how does God define Baptism for those who are unable to recieve it physically?

    *Note this passage of scripture from
    Ephesians 4

    There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—

    one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

    But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.

    *So, as a Coptic, I know what Christ has apportioned the form of Baptism to mean for me; I know by the teachings of the church.

    For others I do not know what grace and symbolism Christ has aportortioned for them.

    All in all though, there can only be ONE baptism; " to buried with Christ [through baptism] into death

    in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." (Rom 6:4)



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