I think it depends on what you think about it....if it's wrong or not, but I personally think why eat the stuff that taste like the non-fasting food, when u are fasting. U know what I mean? Like why eat things that taste like meat, when u are fasting, wasn't the purpose of fasting from the first place is to give up those things, so why substituite it with something similar to it. Again, it goes back to u and whether u want to eat this thing becuase it actually taste like meat, or u are just eating becuase u are eating it... Hope that helped. God Bless, Marianne
I don't think it's wrong because what it contains isn't milk or anything that is "fetary", but then again i believe it's a matter of choice whether u want to eat tht certain food bc it's like real milk, or just because there is no other substitute God Bless, Marianne
i would like to say personally yannee i think its wrong because why do we fast ?so we can randomly deprive our selves of food we enjoy? no tabaan (of course) we fast to show god that we are going without the food we love for him and that we would hata give up eating certain things for him so if we get the substitute (stafdna eh) what did we gain? nothing iin my opinion if youre gonna eat a substitute of summin just because its siyomy that isnt fasting
fasting is not about the molecular composition of food...if u like chocolate really bad, and u go out looking for lent chocolate, then u have been defeated by ur own lusts. if u insist on eating something with the taste of milkchocolate, just eat milkchocolate...why would u go looking for substitutes ::)
Fasting is a very difficult topic to discuss. There is the aspect of abstinence from food for a given period of time and then there is the abstinence from animal products all together (vegeterian dieting).
As a comment and to carry the American cliche: "if it clucks like a chicken, and walks like a chicken, it is a chicken". In that regard, "if it looks like baklava, and tastes like baklava, it is baklava".
The main element in fasting is not just the changing of diet, but a changing of atmosphere and environment in order to allow for a contemplation on the first nature that we had; preceding the sin of Adam and Eve. Their life in the Garden of Eden was happy and without the worries of difficulties of food gathering or the intricacies of cooking and culinary art (as well as other things for that matter). Our return to the simpler time of existence allows to concentrate and have more time for the more important things...the spiritual existence.
I would not put soy milk in the same category as baklava and cake that are not made with the animal products. Soy milk accounts for essential nutrients to help with proper growth. An ENSURE shake helps for proper nutrients, not a whim of delicacy. For the infant, the young person, pregnant woman, etc., going through the day, a proper diet is necessary.
In regard to how rigorous one approaches their fasting, this is something that requires the input of the Father of Confession. It is not up to the individual to set that standard. This approach is a pull of hubris and not an endeavor into developing the spiritual life.
Fasting is good. It is a Command of Our Lord and Savior. He spoke rightly in saying that 'this kind (the devil) cannot be cast out except by fasting and prayer'. We have example and precedence from the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the on-going ACTS of the Apostles (the Apostolic Tradition and the daily witness of the Apostolic Churches).
Fasting requires common sense and an observance of the "meat" of the matter and not the fallacy of the "letter of the law".
The act of fasting and abstinence goes hand in hand with the ambiance of prayer, the sacramental life, the penance, and the observance of our own weaknesses.
One cannot fast by the body and allow the spirit and mind to have their whims in other inappropriate venues. This includes attire and places of visitation.
You cannot be fasting and taking in a liquor drink. Although the liquor is of vegeterian stock, it is not within the realm of the ambiance and holiness of fasting.
The goal is in the remembrance of trying to attain and revert to the life of our Father Adam and our Mother Eve prior to "The Fall".
Fasting is a healthy endeavor. It is a gift from Our Father in Heaven to help us stave off the incursions on our body, i.e., CHOLESTEROL.
Hey, if our fathers did and they were happy, content, and living in the Grace of the Almighty, it has to be good for all of us.
"if it clucks like a chicken, and walks like a chicken, it is a chicken". In that regard, "if it looks like baklava, and tastes like baklava, it is baklava".
I listened to this Bishop's (sry i forgot his name ???) sermon during the fasting for the lent last year and he was saying that we should stay away from food substitutions because it undermines the whole idea of fasting... like Hos Erof mentioned before, if you're not going to eat the real thing and going to get a substitute that tastes just like it, you might as well eat the real thing.... hope that helps ;)
[quote author=Hos Erof link=board=4;threadid=1023;start=0#msg18003 date=1105554207] fasting is not about the molecular composition of food...if u like chocolate really bad, and u go out looking for lent chocolate, then u have been defeated by ur own lusts. if u insist on eating something with the taste of milkchocolate, just eat milkchocolate...why would u go looking for substitutes ::)
i think not just going out after something, if you only think about it...think about getting something that you can not eat during fasting, that makes fasting as if you aren't fasting. Anyways, fastings are suppose to be after the liturgy has ended wchich is usually around 1 or 3, depends on your church in Egypt..... so you really shouldnt be eating breakfast from the first place :P
I can see the confusion about the food thing i think that if you really like bbq chips and you are fasting you shouldnt eat them, give it up, but follow church tradition of course no dairy no animal stuff etc, but if you like something that is fasting give that up too, u know! and fasting is not only about giving up material things, you have to refrain from sin fast as much as you can from sin i think thats the purpose of fasting!
Anyways, fastings are suppose to be after the liturgy has ended wchich is usually around 1 or 3, depends on your church in Egypt..... so you really shouldnt be eating breakfast from the first place
lol, u raise a good point here. There is supposed to be a period in which a person abstains completely from food (this is what fasting is in the first place, abstain from food); a period of a couple of hours, according to the "spiritual level" of the specific person, and also other circumstances (illness, age, type of work throughout the day etc)
the main idea of fasting is to grow sipirtually and be a better Christian. it's to abstain from bad habits and sins that take over one's life. it's to acheive purity of the soul and enlightment of the mind....
fasting from food is about abstaining from things you like, so when you 'crave' it you remember your resultion to grow sipritually and keep working at it.
there are many reasons why the church says to stay away from animal products, and one of them (logically speaking), i think, is because that is the most common thing that humans eat, thus fasting from it will cause a craving - again - which is a constant reminder to achieve inner perfection.
my dad told my this story that happened to him: while he was a teen in egypt, he loved drinking tea (you know egyptain socalizing - its shay every minute!)... his father of confession knew his love and 'need' for tea daily (more than once a day)... so his FOC told him that during this fast, he can eat and drink whatever he wants, but he cannot for any reason drink tea (or coffee).... the idea was for my dad to control his craving for tea, which inturn would help him grow spiritually.
the point of this story is that its important to abstain from things that you like/absoloutely 'need', inorder to take control over things that you dont like (i.e sins).
if one eats substituets for interest in good health - go ahead. if its just to give some taste in food so not everything tastes like the same brand of cardboard (as some soy products...) then eat.... if one cannot whatsoever live without - say - chocolate... then stay away from chocolate (fasting chocolate or not) and pray everytime you crave it.... that's the spiritual benefit....
There is the aspect of abstinence from food for a given period of time and then there is the abstinence from animal products all together (vegeterian dieting).
fasting from food is about abstaining from things you like, so when you 'crave' it you remember your resultion to grow sipritually and keep working at it.
Comments
Hope that helped.
God Bless,
Marianne
God Bless,
Marianne
i would like to say personally yannee i think its wrong because why do we fast ?so we can randomly deprive our selves of food we enjoy? no tabaan (of course) we fast to show god that we are going without the food we love for him and that we would hata give up eating certain things for him so if we get the substitute (stafdna eh) what did we gain? nothing iin my opinion if youre gonna eat a substitute of summin just because its siyomy that isnt fasting
aghape,
chris
As a comment and to carry the American cliche: "if it clucks like a chicken, and walks like a chicken, it is a chicken". In that regard, "if it looks like baklava, and tastes like baklava, it is baklava".
The main element in fasting is not just the changing of diet, but a changing of atmosphere and environment in order to allow for a contemplation on the first nature that we had; preceding the sin of Adam and Eve. Their life in the Garden of Eden was happy and without the worries of difficulties of food gathering or the intricacies of cooking and culinary art (as well as other things for that matter). Our return to the simpler time of existence allows to concentrate and have more time for the more important things...the spiritual existence.
I would not put soy milk in the same category as baklava and cake that are not made with the animal products. Soy milk accounts for essential nutrients to help with proper growth. An ENSURE shake helps for proper nutrients, not a whim of delicacy. For the infant, the young person, pregnant woman, etc., going through the day, a proper diet is necessary.
In regard to how rigorous one approaches their fasting, this is something that requires the input of the Father of Confession. It is not up to the individual to set that standard. This approach is a pull of hubris and not an endeavor into developing the spiritual life.
Fasting is good. It is a Command of Our Lord and Savior. He spoke rightly in saying that 'this kind (the devil) cannot be cast out except by fasting and prayer'. We have example and precedence from the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the on-going ACTS of the Apostles (the Apostolic Tradition and the daily witness of the Apostolic Churches).
Fasting requires common sense and an observance of the "meat" of the matter and not the fallacy of the "letter of the law".
The act of fasting and abstinence goes hand in hand with the ambiance of prayer, the sacramental life, the penance, and the observance of our own weaknesses.
One cannot fast by the body and allow the spirit and mind to have their whims in other inappropriate venues. This includes attire and places of visitation.
You cannot be fasting and taking in a liquor drink. Although the liquor is of vegeterian stock, it is not within the realm of the ambiance and holiness of fasting.
The goal is in the remembrance of trying to attain and revert to the life of our Father Adam and our Mother Eve prior to "The Fall".
Fasting is a healthy endeavor. It is a gift from Our Father in Heaven to help us stave off the incursions on our body, i.e., CHOLESTEROL.
Hey, if our fathers did and they were happy, content, and living in the Grace of the Almighty, it has to be good for all of us.
I listened to this Bishop's (sry i forgot his name ???) sermon during the fasting for the lent last year and he was saying that we should stay away from food substitutions because it undermines the whole idea of fasting... like Hos Erof mentioned before, if you're not going to eat the real thing and going to get a substitute that tastes just like it, you might as well eat the real thing.... hope that helps ;)
God Bless,
Mariam
fasting is not about the molecular composition of food...if u like chocolate really bad, and u go out looking for lent chocolate, then u have been defeated by ur own lusts. if u insist on eating something with the taste of milkchocolate, just eat milkchocolate...why would u go looking for substitutes ::)
i think not just going out after something, if you only think about it...think about getting something that you can not eat during fasting, that makes fasting as if you aren't fasting.
Anyways, fastings are suppose to be after the liturgy has ended wchich is usually around 1 or 3, depends on your church in Egypt..... so you really shouldnt be eating breakfast from the first place :P
Maria
fasting from food is about abstaining from things you like, so when you 'crave' it you remember your resultion to grow sipritually and keep working at it.
there are many reasons why the church says to stay away from animal products, and one of them (logically speaking), i think, is because that is the most common thing that humans eat, thus fasting from it will cause a craving - again - which is a constant reminder to achieve inner perfection.
my dad told my this story that happened to him: while he was a teen in egypt, he loved drinking tea (you know egyptain socalizing - its shay every minute!)...
his father of confession knew his love and 'need' for tea daily (more than once a day)... so his FOC told him that during this fast, he can eat and drink whatever he wants, but he cannot for any reason drink tea (or coffee).... the idea was for my dad to control his craving for tea, which inturn would help him grow spiritually.
the point of this story is that its important to abstain from things that you like/absoloutely 'need', inorder to take control over things that you dont like (i.e sins).
if one eats substituets for interest in good health - go ahead. if its just to give some taste in food so not everything tastes like the same brand of cardboard (as some soy products...) then eat.... if one cannot whatsoever live without - say - chocolate... then stay away from chocolate (fasting chocolate or not) and pray everytime you crave it....
that's the spiritual benefit....
jus my lil opinion....
take care and God bless
Actually, it is called the vegan diet.
God Bless
fasting from food is about abstaining from things you like, so when you 'crave' it you remember your resultion to grow sipritually and keep working at it.
NICELY PUT I AGREE
maria