After Communion...

I have heard that after partaking of the Holy Communion, you cannot bleed (and if you do, you burn the tissue with the blood), you can't get a haircut, swim, cut your nails, or take a shower. Why?

Je Nai Nan
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Comments

  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    As I understand it, the idea is that you have consumed Christ and thus He has sanctified every aspect of your body. Thus you are made Holy through the partaking of Him. I personally am not too convinced of this notion as our union with Christ is a mystical union. Some people are just more extreme than others.
  • See ? I agree with you on that one  :P
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=✞Je Nai Nan✞ link=topic=12494.msg146454#msg146454 date=1319392256]
    See ? I agree with you on that one  :P


    As opposed to...
  • wow....those are a lot of stuff to stay away from after communion. I am a believer of that to some certain extent. first, it is for only 9 hours to not do these things. Bleeding yes. swimming and taking a shower yes because washes your body; it'll be like you are removing the blessing from your body. nails doesn't make much sense to me. haircuts, i would say that because it is expected that after you get a haircut, you'll take a shower.....but that might be egy mentality.
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146458#msg146458 date=1319399512]
    first, it is for only 9 hours to not do these things.

    Why 9 hours as opposed to say 1 hour or 12 hours or 5 hours? Seems pretty ambiguous to me.

    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146458#msg146458 date=1319399512]
    Bleeding yes.

    Why?

    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146458#msg146458 date=1319399512]
    swimming and taking a shower yes because washes your body; it'll be like you are removing the blessing from your body.

    How does this work exactly? You can't 'remove' a blessing.
  • [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12494.msg146459#msg146459 date=1319400133]
    Why 9 hours as opposed to say 1 hour or 12 hours or 5 hours? Seems pretty ambiguous to me.

    its the notion that Jesus is still in new in a form of bread an wine.


    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146458#msg146458 date=1319399512]
    Bleeding yes.

    Why?
    food /liquids become your blood. it's one BODY....

    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146458#msg146458 date=1319399512]
    swimming and taking a shower yes because washes your body; it'll be like you are removing the blessing from your body.

    How does this work exactly? You can't 'remove' a blessing.
    we receive the blessing/living Holy Spirit through water while He washes off all uncleanness......
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146460#msg146460 date=1319401194]
    its the notion that Jesus is still in new in a form of bread an wine.
    And this ends after 9 hours?

    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146460#msg146460 date=1319401194]
    food /liquids become your blood. it's one BODY....
    Um, no they don't.

    Production and degradation of blood cells

    In vertebrates, the various cells of blood are made in the bone marrow in a process called hematopoiesis, which includes erythropoiesis, the production of red blood cells; and myelopoiesis, the production of white blood cells and platelets. During childhood, almost every human bone produces red blood cells; as adults, red blood cell production is limited to the larger bones: the bodies of the vertebrae, the breastbone (sternum), the ribcage, the pelvic bones, and the bones of the upper arms and legs. In addition, during childhood, the thymus gland, found in the mediastinum, is an important source of lymphocytes.[13] The proteinaceous component of blood (including clotting proteins) is produced predominantly by the liver, while hormones are produced by the endocrine glands and the watery fraction is regulated by the hypothalamus and maintained by the kidney.

    Healthy erythrocytes have a plasma life of about 120 days before they are degraded by the spleen, and the Kupffer cells in the liver. The liver also clears some proteins, lipids, and amino acids. The kidney actively secretes waste products into the urine.

    Source

    So this doesn't explain why bleeding is frowned upon.

    [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146460#msg146460 date=1319401194]
    we receive the blessing/living Holy Spirit through water while He washes off all uncleanness......

    Not sure how this explains anything. Can you expand?
  • I've also been taught the 9 hours, but only with swimming (because we live on the beach, and that's usually where everyone wants to go after the Liturgy).

    I've never asked 'why 9?'; I'm curious now.
  • Doesn't it take 24 hours to completely digest and remove your food? Wouldn't a full day make more sense rather than 9 hours?
  • you cannot bleed (and if you do, you burn the tissue with the blood),

    you are of no control of bleeding or not, but if you do, you dispose the blood with the best way and most honored way to dispose of holy objects, which is by fire...

    you can't get a haircut,

    in case one day you're getting your hair cut, the scissor by accident nicks your ear, so the church wants you to be of the uttermost care with the blood and body you just consumed. 

    swim,

    when you swim, are going to spit, and you have to be of care of the physical body you consumed, which is usually nine hours (nine usually means the hours that Christ suffered for crucifixion) or untill the new day starts which is at sundown.

    cut your nails,

    same reason for cutting your hair

    or take a shower.

    same reason for swimming!

    all of these things are to give you the ability to respect what you have just consumed, if we treat it with like any food, we will not respect what we just consumed! the important reason why all these rules are present is to be cautious with what you consumed, helping us to be cautious with sin also!
  • Does the Blood actually go into our blood? Is it just the idea of it?
    And lol why can we use the restroom within those 9 hours?
  • Have we returned to this Jewish/Islamic "haram" mentality again? Who cares if you bleed, spit, swim, or do anything else after communion - whether 5 minutes, 9 hours or 24 hours? These "rules" are too reminiscent of Pharisaical rules of washing and purification. Jesus condemned this haram mentality saying, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated?" Anything that goes into your mouth is eliminated, whether through your stomach, through bleeding, through urine, through sweat. All of it is eliminated. And it doesn't matter how or when. It doesn't matter what physically goes out of your body. What matters is what comes out of your heart. Jesus continues, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

    Now we know that the Body and Blood is not regular food? It is bread that comes from heaven and gives eternal life. However, this blessing and the grace does not stop because it is eliminated from the body as described above. The blessing and grace is eliminated (or at least distorted) by sin.

    What does it matter if you took a shower 9.5 hours after communion, if you cursed your brother 10 minutes after communion? What does it matter if you bleed, especially if it is accidentally when you got a haircut if you never repented? How does burning the napkin you wiped your blood minimize some sort of disrespect? Disrespecting Christ's salvific Body and Blood which you have consumed only occurs with sin (and there's no time limit).

    Let us not be so narrow minded. Let us not conform to superficial rules that are neither found in Scripture nor supported by patristic Orthodox wisdom. But let us endeavor to live a deep spiritual life without sin as Christ has called us.
    George
  • Hey guys most of these things are due to the fact that we are egyptian and that we like to really really really show respect. Honestly man God is not going to allow his body or blood to be disgraced. If u fall and cut go ahead and burn it but ur life doesnt depend on it its just out of respect and reverence towards the lords holiness. In terms of the 9 hours ive spoken with many bishops about it. There is no biblical reference and as for minas explanation ive never heard it before ever. and since bishops of the holy synod didnt bring that up i doubt its really the reason. Therefore in the end...I DONT KNOW where half of these things came from lol. some people will tell you dont shower for 3 days and dont brush ur teeth for god knows how long. Especially in the se3eed. Taking part of the holy communion means u should purify urself and wash urself and be clean lol i dont know guys.
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=12494.msg146484#msg146484 date=1319430435]
    Have we returned to this Jewish/Islamic "haram" mentality again? Who cares if you bleed, spit, swim, or do anything else after communion - whether 5 minutes, 9 hours or 24 hours? These "rules" are too reminiscent of Pharisaical rules of washing and purification. Jesus condemned this haram mentality saying, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated?" Anything that goes into your mouth is eliminated, whether through your stomach, through bleeding, through urine, through sweat. All of it is eliminated. And it doesn't matter how or when. It doesn't matter what physically goes out of your body. What matters is what comes out of your heart. Jesus continues, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

    Now we know that the Body and Blood is not regular food? It is bread that comes from heaven and gives eternal life. However, this blessing and the grace does not stop because it is eliminated from the body as described above. The blessing and grace is eliminated (or at least distorted) by sin.

    What does it matter if you took a shower 9.5 hours after communion, if you cursed your brother 10 minutes after communion? What does it matter if you bleed, especially if it is accidentally when you got a haircut if you never repented? How does burning the napkin you wiped your blood minimize some sort of disrespect? Disrespecting Christ's salvific Body and Blood which you have consumed only occurs with sin (and there's no time limit).

    Let us not be so narrow minded. Let us not conform to superficial rules that are neither found in Scripture nor supported by patristic Orthodox wisdom. But let us endeavor to live a deep spiritual life without sin as Christ has called us.
    George


    Very well said.
  • This 9 hour rule after communion is just another example of how we are taught and practice Christianity superficially. Lack of knowledge, on both the teacher of such rules and the student who doesn't question it's validity, is the primary reason we are suffering in this world. "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge" Hosea 4:6
  • So what should be the right, informed practice, Remnkemi? I think I might agree with your perspective, though not so much with your way of expressing it. We should care if we curse our brother at any point (after or before taking communion), because certainly it's not in keeping with Christian behavior, and you can bet that God cares. I believe that such restrictions as this 9 hour rule (which I had never heard before now) are set up with good intentions in order to help us take seriously the gravity of communion, just as we fast for a period before taking communion in preparation for it. If after we take communion we return to life as normal, then what is the point of taking communion? Is it ritual only, with no change in us? I would not condemn anybody who swims or swears after communion (I know I live in a glass house!); I would only guess, as an outsider who cannot even take communion yet, that such people might be missing the point of it. If partaking in the very body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ does not change us in some way, and we go back to sinfulness (in the cursing example; it is hard for me to imagine how bleeding might be sinful) in a matter of minutes, have we not partaken of our own damnation by eating and drinking unworthily? Is it not said in the liturgy that holies are for the holy? I do not think I have a particularly "Islamic" or "Jewish" view on this (having not grown up in a Muslim society as many of you did). I am just trying to make sense of how it couldn't matter how we behave. My gut tells me that's wrong, even if your ultimate point in your post is to not be Pharisaical (which I absolutely agree with).
  • Jeremiah,

    We fast 9 hours before Communion as well.
  • I know.  :)
  • ...did you also know we're fasting today?
  • Okay, now you're just making me feel bad...  :-[
  • I'm sorry.

    Everyone knows you're smarter than me in every way, even though you're not Coptic yet.

    I'm just the little brat who gets everyone (including myself) in trouble--always.

    But seriously... we're fasting today.
  • I didn't know we're fasting today TITL.. why?
    Oujai
  • ...ahem, Ophadece, play along....

  • Meanie. Don't do that!  :-[
  • titL, that was mean!
    imagine frowning tant...

    ;)
    about the swimming/ spitting thing, that makes me feel better, coz i took my friends (who are kids) paddling in the sea one day after liturgy (we didn't actually swim). they live very far from the sea, so it felt like a natural thing to do. then their mum freaked out a little and i felt like a naughty tant!
  • I'll try for some other time then. Ophadece ruined it!
  • Jeremy,
    I truly apologize for all the confusing posts today.

    What I was trying to illustrate is that there are rules which define what is "haram" or forbidden. We find them a lot in Jewish and Islamic cultures. This particular 9 hours after communion is a pseudo-custom because it is not defined anywhere, there is no biblical or patristic support and deep down it doesn't make sense. The last part is what I was really trying to illustrate.

    This so-and-so-custom-is-forbidden mentality, which anti-Christian, is propagated by lack of knowledge.  This mentality frowns upon questioning the validity of such pseudo-rules and fosters a sort of fear that the angry God will send me to hell for breaking this forbidden rule. This is not the Christian God who desires mercy and love.

    The intention of such "forbidden" mentality at first must be good. These rules seem to start out respecting God. They were created to appease God. But because of ignorance and lack of knowledge, it is actually appeasing the wrong god. Experience shows us that practicing these doesn't stop people from disrespecting God by sinning. Experience shows us that people get sucked into "I AM do something wrong because I MAY unintentionally violate the rule" as Mabsoota told us that mother felt. 

    I am not saying we shouldn't care if our brother curses after communion. And sinning is not confined to Jewish or Islamic mentality. And I am not saying how we behave doesn't matter. I am saying this mentality distracts us from repentance and gives a false sense of "doing something right" that is based on a wrong understanding, irrationality, and ignorance of God. The Bible is clear. A contrite and repentant heart is more important than burnt sacrifices, acts of goodness is more important than worrying how I might be offending God, and love is more important than condemnation and judgment.

    You asked what is the right and informed practice. That's hard to answer because I am talking about the forbidden mentality, not really about one forbidden custom. All I can say is that right practices are biblicly and patristicly supported, make rational sense and help people grow, not fear or be judged haphazardly.

    Does that make sense?

    PS. Jeremy if you need my help getting back at TITL, let me know in a pm.
  • Very funny :P
  • Hey guys,

    I was told this story by a monk who met one of the deacons in the story:

    2 Deacons and their priest (a famous priest whose name shall remain concealed) had finished tasbeha late one night and were saying goodbye in a parking lot. A car came up having a parishioner and his wife. The parishioner tells Father that his wife is talking life a man. So Abouna knew exactly what it was. So he told the two deacons to go inside church and to stay in the altar saying Lord Have Mercy. This deacon recalls what he heard outside. The priest asked the demon why he possessed the woman and he said, "She hadn't taken communion for forty days, she is liable to possession." He then asked about the billions who have never taken communion once and the devil answered "I enter them the day they are born."

    The story continues, but the part I want to highlight comes up in the above. Although the devil is not restricted by times, the fact that the church says something, the devil has to obey it. The way I see it is that the church says something, and out of the Love of God for the church, he binds the devil by it. That is why the devil claimed that her liability arose after 40 days.

    Of course this story may be questioned, and therefor the message it preaches may also be questioned. But if it is true, it exhibits the importance of following the church's rules.

    Please don't teach me about how story get twisted or all that stuff. I know all that. I personally follow all of the rules for the sake of my conscience.

    ReturnOrthodoxy
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=returnorthodoxy link=topic=12494.msg146562#msg146562 date=1319516856]
    Hey guys,

    I was told this story by a monk who met one of the deacons in the story:

    2 Deacons and their priest (a famous priest whose name shall remain concealed) had finished tasbeha late one night and were saying goodbye in a parking lot. A car came up having a parishioner and his wife. The parishioner tells Father that his wife is talking life a man. So Abouna knew exactly what it was. So he told the two deacons to go inside church and to stay in the altar saying Lord Have Mercy. This deacon recalls what he heard outside. The priest asked the demon why he possessed the woman and he said, "She hadn't taken communion for forty days, she is liable to possession." He then asked about the billions who have never taken communion once and the devil answered "I enter them the day they are born."

    The story continues, but the part I want to highlight comes up in the above. Although the devil is not restricted by times, the fact that the church says something, the devil has to obey it. The way I see it is that the church says something, and out of the Love of God for the church, he binds the devil by it. That is why the devil claimed that her liability arose after 40 days.

    Of course this story may be questioned, and therefor the message it preaches may also be questioned. But if it is true, it exhibits the importance of following the church's rules.

    Please don't teach me about how story get twisted or all that stuff. I know all that. I personally follow all of the rules for the sake of my conscience.


    I think the point is that the Church doesn't say anything when it comes to these rules. There are no canons that state it, there is no Patristic precedent for it and there is nothing in the Tradition of the Church about them. There is, however, a precedent based on the Traditions of the Church about the risks of not taking communion after 40 days (though because of God's mercy, circumstances do play a factor). That is the difference between what has been discussed in this thread and your story.
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