Egypt incident and facebook....

I dont know if many of you received texts or messages on facebook, myspace, or whatever, about going to the united nations or somthing and protesting. If you did dont go reconsider what you are doing and think about the image you are giving christians. When we need something to happen or when we need justice we dont just go make trouble and protest untill we get it. No we are coptic orthodox children thats not how things were taught to be done. WE FAST, WE PRAY, WE SING, WE ATTEND LITURGY AND PRAY EVEN MORE! not one place in the bible did Christ protest, no one place did He handle a problem by protesting....he prayed and so did his saints. The pope told us to fast and pray, not to go out and cry and scream for the end of persecution to come now. Persecution does not end untill God says it ends, if it ended then we all know the end of times is to be near, we dont go out and cause trouble for the people who have nothing to do with this. All im saying is show them the true coptic orthodox faith and pray about this because taking matters into our own hands is like telling Our Lord Jesus Christ that we can do this with out You, we dont really need You now. Im not trying to make it seem like im attacking people or attack anyone i still do love you all, but please reconsider the image of Christ you are supposed to be showing.

Sorry if i said somthing wrong, sorry if i did anything to upset you, sorry if i am speaking against your faith or what you belive is right, and sorry for sinning against you. Just please consider and think before you act.

Lets pray for the persecutors of our brothers and sisters so they can find mercy in the Eyes Of God, and so that we too can find Mercy.

Comments

  • I am not against what you are saying about praying and fasting, but the protests are not for fighting purposes, rather for our people back in Egypt, for them to feel that we are doing something for them and that we actually care. And if you don't like the idea of protesting then don't go, but you can't tell everybody to do so also.

    Pray for me,
    abosefien
  • I have to agree completely with deaconmark123.

    The bible teaches us to turn the other cheek, and moreover our teachings tell us to pray/fast/attend church etc. Personally, I dont like the idea of protesting. In fact, it can actually make things worse (i.e. the Copts in the diaspora appear as if they are conspiring against Egypt). Second, what will a protest really achieve? Sure, the Coptic situation may become more well-known, but then what? Just because my next door neighbour (for example) knows that Copts have it harder in Egypt doesnt really change much. There are many others being persecuted (and far worse than the Copts) around the world.

    I'm not saying I dont have sympathy for those that were recently killed. I think it's a tragic situation for Coptics, Muslims and Egypt as a nation. HOWEVER, I strongly disagree with protests/petitions etc. Rather, in times of distress we should just pray, fast and go to church. Leave the troubles to God and I'm sure he'll solve things. Do you think this is the first time in Coptic history that the Copts have had it hard? Do you think they protested years ago? Both answers are no, and still we got through the tough times.
  • First i would like to say abosefien i love your little smiley abouna thing its cool. =P

    matt88 basicly summed up my whole entire idea, turn the other cheek, although protesting is a much more severe way of letting the copts back in egypt know that we support them, why cant we take more of a COPTIC ORTHODOX approach and pray and fast lol? they can feel like we are doing somthing for them because we are....we ALLLL and i literally mean ALLL are praying for them, holding liturgies, even adding them into the deacon responses.... there is not a single coptic orthodox who doesnt already know about them by now. Yes i do give all my heart out for the familys yes i do pray for those people who killed them and yes i do hope for the world to soon see what we are going through, But protesting doesnt seem Christ like in anyway....

    i am sorry actually for trying to tell people not to go i typed it on accident in the spur of the moment, i ment to only say to reconsider. Sorry abosefien hopefully i can find forgiveness in your heart and in Gods. Pray for us all


  • No deaconmark123, it's okay, forgiveness from my part granted. I'm not saying that we shouldn't fast and pray, not at all. Because that is after all ALL that we can do to help! But by protesting we are just raising our voices here in America to the government. Yes the government here is aware of what happened, but they are not aware of what is going on in Egypt, especially in Nag3 Hammadi, there are still muslims that are going crazy over there and are destroying homes and stores of the Copts. By us protesting here in America, it will cause the american goverment(hopefully) to open their eyes to what is going on and prevent it from continuing. There have already been protests, one in Italy, led by H.G. Bishop Bernaba, bishop of Rome. And the other has been in California, led by H.G. Bishop Serapion, bishop of Los Angeles. And hopefully soon enough, there will be one here in Nashville, Tennessee. And also about the protest in California, H.G. Bishop Serapion, sent one of the diocese priests along with a converted Muslim! to go and start  protests in other states and towns. They are not doing so because they are fighting to get their way, rather to raise their voices to the American government, so that their eyes may be opened and get involved in what is going on.


    And thanks for the compliment, when I first found it, I thought this is great for the tasbeha.org forum!  ;)

    Please pray for me,
    abosefien
  • My mom just came home from her church meeting telling me and my father all the news on how our church is going to do somthing big and we are going to protest because our bishop did give us permission. Now my view is altered. Both are right fasting praying and protesting. But i do agree if we do it without violence yes it is okay. forgive me for my misunderstanding and foolishness i should have gotten my facts straight. I am wrong because of my stubbornness, and human nature to sin. sorry


    i think i might just go protest and help out also because i agree the government needs to open their eyes and aid us because in Egypt they cant do it by themselves
  • That's right! Same here. And good luck with the protests. What church do you go to? What State?

    Pray for me,
    abosefien
  • edited April 2014
    Jh
  • through the grace of God I've been trying to stay silent about this whole thing, but I thought I should say something...

    "stand and see the salvation which is from the Lord, which he will work for us this day; for as ye have seen the Egyptians to-day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.  The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace"


    now lets analyze when Moses said this... He had thousands of people leading them to the promised land... and in front of them is a sea... and behind them is a government or a kingdom seeking to to kill them... not only that, but these thousands are starting to protest!

    we need to trust God... we trust Him in the small things... we trust Him when someone gets sick, when we are stressed, when whatever happens, we say "have faith in God"

    when I fight here and fight there for the "justice" many times I think about it, am I doing all this because really I'm offering my five loaves and two fish?! or is it because I have the five loaves and two fish and I will fight here and fight there trying to "multiply" the amount myself...

    stand and be still... and see the salvation which is from the Lord... if you want to be saved from a problem... seek the savior... and only Him... stay silent and He will speak through your silence... if we start protesting, we're seeking salvation or to be saved from the problem by ourselves... not by God... if God sees you fighting He will let you finish the fight... if you seek God and stay silent and still seeking Him, He will fight for you as you hold your peace!

    neshkor Allah... akhadna el barka!
  • Dear all,
    I really applaud your dedication and love, but honestly, the American government know everything, everyone knows, they also know what is going on in Burundi, Rwanda, Congo, Malesya, Sudan, etc etc etc. THEY JUST DON'T CARE!!!!
    Do you think the governmet don't know what's going on in Saudi Arabia for instance? Yet still, they have great bonds with them...
    THEY WILL NOT DO ANYTHING UNLESS IT IS SOMEHOW IN THEIR OWN INTEREST!!!!
    What do you want??? You want them to interfere in Egypt's business? You want them to breach the sovereignty of Egypt?
    Please think about what you're asking... the Copts in Egypt are Egyptians, don't forget that

    Please do realize that no government whatsoever is going to help us, so we should not trust in them, we have One who sees all, knows all and above all: He cares, truly cares, He has tasted pain, betrayal, injustice, and He promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail...

    The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?
    The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me.
    It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
    It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.
  • I agree with both deaconmark123 & abosefien. It is good not to isolate ourselves but to let others know of our cause, it is good to protest. But as we protest let us say with the Psalmist “Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.” 
    Psalm 146
      1Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul.
      2While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
      3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
      4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
      5Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:
      6Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever:
      7Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
      8The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:
      9The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.
      10The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.
    In Christ
    Theophilus
  • I agree with both deaconmark123 & abosefien. It is good not to isolate ourselves but to let others know of our cause, it is good to protest. But as we protest let us say with the Psalmist “Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.”
    Psalm 146
      1Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul.
      2While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
      3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
      4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
      5Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:
      6Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever:
      7Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
      8The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:
      9The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.
      10The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.
    In Christ
    Theophilus

    Dear all,
    I really applaud your dedication and love, but honestly, the American government know everything, everyone knows, they also know what is going on in Burundi, Rwanda, Congo, Malesya, Sudan, etc etc etc. THEY JUST DON'T CARE!!!!
    Do you think the governmet don't know what's going on in Saudi Arabia for instance? Yet still, they have great bonds with them...
    THEY WILL NOT DO ANYTHING UNLESS IT IS SOMEHOW IN THEIR OWN INTEREST!!!!
    What do you want??? You want them to interfere in Egypt's business? You want them to breach the sovereignty of Egypt?
    Please think about what you're asking... the Copts in Egypt are Egyptians, don't forget that

    Please do realize that no government whatsoever is going to help us, so we should not trust in them, we have One who sees all, knows all and above all: He cares, truly cares, He has tasted pain, betrayal, injustice, and He promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail...

    The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?
    The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me.
    It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
    It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

    through the grace of God I've been trying to stay silent about this whole thing, but I thought I should say something...

    "stand and see the salvation which is from the Lord, which he will work for us this day; for as ye have seen the Egyptians to-day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.  The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace"

    now lets analyze when Moses said this... He had thousands of people leading them to the promised land... and in front of them is a sea... and behind them is a government or a kingdom seeking to to kill them... not only that, but these thousands are starting to protest!

    we need to trust God... we trust Him in the small things... we trust Him when someone gets sick, when we are stressed, when whatever happens, we say "have faith in God"

    when I fight here and fight there for the "justice" many times I think about it, am I doing all this because really I'm offering my five loaves and two fish?! or is it because I have the five loaves and two fish and I will fight here and fight there trying to "multiply" the amount myself...

    stand and be still... and see the salvation which is from the Lord... if you want to be saved from a problem... seek the savior... and only Him... stay silent and He will speak through your silence... if we start protesting, we're seeking salvation or to be saved from the problem by ourselves... not by God... if God sees you fighting He will let you finish the fight... if you seek God and stay silent and still seeking Him, He will fight for you as you hold your peace!

    neshkor Allah... akhadna el barka!

    THOSE WERE THE WORDS I WAS TRYING TO FIND!!! exactly this is why i in the first place started this because of these, like theopilus1 said lets protest but say with the Psalmist. like Godislove said the government here is not going to care at all because we really dont need another iraq war to start, like superMAN(BAM) said "stand and see the salvation which is from the Lord, which he will work for us this day; for as ye have seen the Egyptians to-day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.  The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace"- these are the words i was looking for as to my reason of why protesting is not correct or right.....but if the bishop said its okay i guess he with the grace of God made that decision
  • Dear Bretheren, all we r doing 4 the protest is that we want everybody to hear our voices.  Anybody from NJ, we r trying to get our senator to be aware of this.  Im going with st george and st shenouda and we r leaving at 9 am. Anybody who is free please come and let ur voice be heard.  Also, do not forget its on epiphany
  • "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven. 
    Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. 
    Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. 
    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousnesss, for they shall be filled. 
    Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. 
    Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. 
    Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God. 
    Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven. 
    Blessed are you when men shall revile you and shall persecute you and shall speak all manner of evil against you falsely for My sake. 
    Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven.
    "  Matthew 5:3-12, as used in the Beatitudes

    "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves.  Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.  But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues.  You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.  But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak.  For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you."  -- Matthew 10:16-20

    Persecution, Brothers and Sisters, is a blessing and a promise from God.  How we as Orthodox Christians respond to it will testify to Christ's Life in us: are we ignorant and bringing matters of God to the state, or are we watchful and bringing matters of God to God?  The government honestly doesn't care, not the Canadian or the American or the Australian or the British.  They all have too much tied to the Egyptian government that they wouldn't listen to an insignificant minority group (ie: us Orthodox Christians).  They would if we were Muslim or Catholics and had their kind of money and political influence, but that is not how we as Orthodox Christians operate!  We operate, as abosflen and Matt888 have said, in prayer, fasting, the services of the Church, and more prayer.  Jesus Christ our God is our Defender and Advocate and will not let the gates of hell overcome His Holy Church--history has proven that when persecution is on the rise, fervor for Jesus rises, faith in the Lord rises, our churches grow, and Saints are borne!  Living comfortably and without persecution makes Christians lukewarm, and we know what happens to them: look at the book of Revelation, none of those cities have a Church anymore! 

    I do apologize and beg your forgiveness if I have spoken too strongly--I mean no offense and earnestly pray for the salvation and protection of all Orthodox Christians.  I am greatly saddened by the prospect that I may not receive the crown of martyrdom, and I do pray that I may be accounted worthy of that blessing. 
  • Jesus called us to visit those in prison, so i see demonstration as standing beside those who suffer. as long as we are not throwing stones and shouting for bad things to happen to the murderers, it's ok.
    of course the most important thing is to cry out to God and ask for His strength and mercy. we need His power to be brave and face suffering. we should examine our lives to see if we are living to please God and repent from those things that pull us away from God (greed, possessions, gossip, jealousy etc). then, when we ask Him, God will comfort us and pull us closer to Him. life with God is exciting and dangerous. He will guide us along the way and fill us with His love and comfort.
  • Please forgive me, my ignorance and belligerant attitude sometimes speak greater volumes than the message I am actually trying to send.  My concern with demonstrations and protests is the spirit of them.  Why do we do them?  Our understanding and practices of demonstrations and protests are terrbily twisted now, and thus whenever I have seen anyone--including Orthodox Christians--put on a demonstration, they use megaphones, big signs, lame one-liner shouts, and exhibit great anger.  There really isn't much that separates us from everyone else when it comes to demonstrations--at least from what I have seen. 

    That being said, perhaps I am ignorant of the demonstrations that are peaceful, prayerful, and full of praise songs and Orthodox Christians en masse praying the Agepya or some other services in front of a state building of high profile--this grabs attention.  I just weep within whenever I watch the news or read the news and learn of Orthodox Christians fighting and shouting to get their point across.  This is what I was standing against, as this is what seems to always happen whenever we demonstrate about injustice and persecution in Egypt, Jerusalem, Jordan, Ukraine, Russia, etc. 

    I do put forth a challenge: to any lay person, deacon, priest, or bishop who encourages and/or gives a blessing to the Faithful to partake in any demonstration, that they themselves would be present and lead it by holding prayer services instead of holding signs and shouting.  They will know we are Christians by our love, not by our shouts.  Our words fall on deaf ears, not matter how loud we scream.  Only by our prayers and demonstrations of love and mercy will we ever be heard.  ...not that my endorsement counts or matter: it doesn't.  I just think it is time for a change and it starts here and now with us. 

    So, how about it?
  • i havent read all the comments but i thought it was about letting those in Egypt know that they have support, and that we're almost professing our religion to the world ...? Also that its to let the muslims know that we aren't scared because we have Jesus Christ!
    And about whether its right or wrong, it reminds me of the story about the man who was drowning and prayed to God to help him and a boat came to save him and a life jacket floated toward him, and a helicopter flew to him, and he said to all of them " no, God's going to help me" and he died, and got to heaven and asked God why He didnt help him, and God said, "whatcha talkin about? i sent you a lifejacket, boat and helicopter"
  • This isn't the first time this has been done in Egypt, I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but I'll say it again.
    God told Moses to go to Pharaoh and tell him that the Lord God says, "Let my people go." Is this not a protest against pharaoh for justice in Egypt? Are we not going to our Pharaoh and asking for our freedom? We are the Israelites in this situation. As long as it is done peacefully and through God's grace, there is nothing wrong with it.
  • excuse me, and forgive me if i have been a hypocrite

    But i am trying to go on tuesday to protest but i will not do it without peace. Both sides of this topic are correct; wrong and right. I have seen videos of people who were protesting and some of the adults from egypt began to tell the camera about how barbaric and sensless islam is, and they continued to rant about why islam is bad why the government is bad because of islam, this is and that islam. Basicly they told the cameras that " oh we are here to protest against those barbarians we call people".

    dont get me wrong there we definatly a plethora of people there leading a peaceful protest, but they need to not curse, and mock islam. We are supposed to be brothers and sisters and love one another, not hate. I really hope when i go it will be peaceful.
  • Anba David came to my church, East Brunswick NJ, and said a very beutiful lecture and it even went on CNN.  He said They might have guns, but we have love.  They have weapons, but we have prayer.  And they have very powerful people we have an almighty God.  Now who do you think has the advantage.  Just pray and thank God. And Act like a true Christian.
    Aydan Fal Nashkor Allah!
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