How has the Coptic Church kept itself pure from child abuse by clergy?

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  • Might no must be a yank
  • @ioannesAthanasius not to nitpick or distract from the discussion, but be careful about saying the Church made the Bible. The Church definitely collected, organized and spread the Bible, but I would not say she made it necessarily. The Bible came from the Father by the Spirit to men about the Son; humans did not create anything out of nothingness- it all came from God.
  • @Daniel_Kyrillos
    That’s what I meant to say. Forgive me if I used the wrong terminology. English is not my native language.
  • Interesting discussion. I think on this occasion @ioannedAthanasius's understanding has some merit. The way Paul defines Church as Christ's Body makes it a human / divine collaboration. Christ seems to take this thought so far that on the Damascus road when He confronts Paul, He doesn't say "why are you persecuting my Church" but rather he says "why are you persecuting Me?"

    Because the Church has this kind of divine dimension it has powers and prence beyond what we can see. It existed before time and is mentioned by God in the creation narrative even before man is made. St Gregory of Nyssa in his work On the Making of Man tells us that when God says let us make man in our image, this is a reference to humanity collaboratively as no single individual can be God's image its a collective image that only the who of humanity can represent together. Its also described by God as a project, not as a command most of the other acts of Creation were and the creation of man is only really finished when Christ is on the cross and proclaims the words "it is finished." This is sealing for us as Paul says the two Adams, the first made from dust and the second who was a heavenly man.

    As such the Bible isn't a solely divine entity, it didn't fall out of heaven. It was produced by a divine / human synergy much like the Church is at its roots, God and Man together.

    I think too often we reduce Church to a solely human institution and when we do so we do the true nature and real mystery of the Church a disservice.
  • Its true, we have ego wars, and infighting, but never a case of sexual abuse. My gosh, that's horrid.. but here's why: 

    it has NOTHING to do about married priests as Mina says. NOTHING!!

    In the Coptic Church , we have discipleship. 

    So let's say that I wish to become a servant in the Church.. just a simple Church servant. Teaching kids, or even teenagers. No. Never. The priest won't allow it. For several reasons:

    a) Well, he doesn't know me.. 
    b) He needs to know me. 
    c) He needs to know me well
    d) He needs to trust me

    What about a priest? The same. We just don't go off and willy nilly make anyone a priest. 
    a) Why does this chap want to be a priest for?
    b) Who knows him?
    c) Who recommends him?
    d) Who is his priest?
    e) Who is the bishop of the priest that knows him.. let's ask them.

    To be a priest, there is discipleship. He would have had to have been a disciple of another priest or a bishop... and its a question of knowing someone deeply. 

    Now contrast this with the Catholic Church - their door is open to ANYONE (and I mean ANYONE) who wants to be a priest. The only critieria? He needs to be catholic!! That's it. He could be an absolute moron. But they'd still accept him. The Catholics are focused more on quantity of faith, rather than quality of faith.

    See?? So we have this concept of discipleship.

    Look, let me tell you a small story:

    In the Coptic Orthodox Church there was a scandal: It was a monk who sent photos of himself having sex with women. It appeared in all the tabloids. 

    Well, what I love about this story is this:

    The monk was defrocked 2 or 3 years BEFORE that story happened. So, in the pics, he is dressed as a monk, and looks like a monk, but was defrocked. He is NOT a monk, and was not a monk 2 years before that incident. 

    Now let's deep dive into this.

    I'm the head of the monastery where this monk is. I manage 100's of monks and I'm their spiritual father. I take their confessions and I observe their spiritual behaviour. All the monks may have some struggle. It could even be sexual. So we pray together and through God's grace, we see them overcome their struggles. But with this particular monk, the head of the monastery insists that the monk needs to be defrocked. LOL. 

    Its not as if the monk was seen doing anything unholy. No! He didn't. Just the discussion and observations with his FoC resulted in him being defrocked. - and that's without the monk doing ANYTHING wrong. 

    That's great. 

    That's what is missing with the Catholic Church. There is NO discipleship. Who is responsible for a priest? or a deacon? Or a Senior Priest, or a Bishop?? There is no discipleship. 

    When these pedophile catholic priests were confessing their sins, what happened?? How could they abuse kids for soooo long?? The reason is this: Their Father's of Confession were irresponsible. They cared more about image than substance. 

  • edited September 23
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