I Apologise For My Actions.

Hi everyone,

I wanted to take this time to apologise to all of you. Seeing as my last post here had well over 1000 views I'd assume many of you know who I am and the post I made regarding leaving my faith.

I admit it was in poor taste and it could have been brought up in a different manner, but it was how I saw things. Like I said, I was silently observing and judging and I just brought my thoughts all together. I was frustrated and I took it out on you and that's not within good ethics. 

I thought I was alone in going through that but my post received a lot of attention and I met many people who went through the same thing I've been and a lot longer. We formed our own tiny community on reddit and while we are still small, discussions go well there. We've also had some people here posting over there. We never shut down any counterarguments before despite clear attempts at proselytising; unlike what happened with my post here and we welcome anyone to join.

Some of you regarded my last post as an attempt at proselytising Atheism. I just want to say that the faith you grew up in (or adopted) was shoved down my throat for as long as I can remember so if you felt like that, take that feeling and add to it around a decade or two. That's what I've been through so you know the source of my frustration. Every time I was told to do something or something bad happens "because God says so/it's God will", seeing people blindly following religion and telling me to do the same. That's proselytism and I will not tolerate it. I've been lurking around a bit but I made myself scarce but on some occasions I would give my thoughts and leave, unless I was asked about them later on.

What prompted me to do with was one of our subreddit posts. Most Copts seem to think of Atheists as those bitter angry people that just wanna throw a fit because people aren't following their ideals. I for one do not care what anyone thinks of me as long as my family is left out of it (unfortunately, if I was found out by my church they would also be subject to the gossip and lose their standing in it and my parents and grandparents would get a heart attack if they knew I deconverted). I will say that I'm somewhat irate and I've always had anger-management issues since my teens that I'm keeping under control now, but I am not that kind of Atheist (but I don't deny their existence) and many of us at reddit are a great bunch to be around as long as you contribute to discussions without proselytising. 

With that said, I am sorry for my actions here. That's the crux of this post. You can choose to accept it, or not, it's up to you.

Cheers.

Comments

  • edited June 29
    Hi Copticapostate,

    I was not around here by the time of your first thread, but Ive read all of it and your reddit thread. First of all I want to say sorry on behalf of each person you mentioned, in your reddit thread original post, who did you any kind of wrong or treated you in a thougthless way or didnt give you a good explantion. By all of what you wrote there I can conclude that we have had very different experiences and Im thankful to have learned about some of the problems you mentioned which i wasnt aware of at all. There are for sure many problems within each Church and also many parts which can be misunderstood in an harmful way by both believers and unbelievers. I can happily tell you that I for one will always be grateful for any just criticisim as I have been wrong in so much and have done so many mistakes to know the beauty of criticism and the wonder of correction and I hope to together with each christian I know - to bring the Church closer to the true will of God in each thing.

    I am really happy that you now are reaching out your hands to us in a very direct and honest and kind way by this thread. Thank you for that. Also I want to add that Im happy that you are continuing to be here on the forum, it is good to have a usually very different opinion in discussions.

    Please accept my best wishes and that I as many others will always hope that you will come to want know God by your own free choice despite the errors of us his followers

    Cheers!
  • Also thanks for inviting us to discuss with you on reddit
  • Apologies accepted. I thought there was some force happening for you to accept something and your reactions are understandable.
    The problem I see is that your reaction was to protect yourself, or protect your dignity and the problem with that is one of the first things people do when they do it is go in denial. Then because they get angry then aggressive which everyone is or does at some stage in their live's go on the attack. Their reasoning is not too sound. For instance, I don't want to get you more defensive, but despite all your thoughts against Jesus, do you know Him as someone who or Whom has love and thruth according to the way things go on inside of us? For instance, someone who says this: John 13: 34-35 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
    Disputes all the wrong things that may happen in our lives, we still need wisdom to correct the things that do go wrong. If we do it on our own or get advice that doesn't take us to a better place, what is the point? I understand the thinking behind those like Thomas Paine or But rand Russell, but if you really get their message, they were protecting themselves as well. One because the genius of Isaac Newton and the other because of his society conflicts ie communism and socialism and his lifestyle. Their arguments were for their own realities which were very real to them but it did or does not have the wisdom of sacrifical love that seeks peaceful unity without someone getting hurt. Darwins beliefs call for the strongest or fittest survive leading to superiorty. There is not the wisdom of love in its struggles, but those things I just mentioned lower man's abilities to cope with one another.
    This world needs the wisdom to cope in its stuggles and I'm sorry but I don't think athiesism can do that.
  • If you dont like this church why you go to other church?If you live in Egypt you must know that Egyot have got many churches(but is true that Churches in Egypt are dangerous places after bombing attacks).You understand that Copts are ethno-religious group.The excopts(usually when we speak about excopts we speak about Copts who leave christianity and the majority convert Islam for many reasons if you search in youtube you can see videos).Copts have got only the church and religion who union all Copts.
  • Thanks for all your comments.

    I did not go to any other church and the last time I've been to Egypt was when I was a child. I know how tough Copts have it there and I wish them nothing but the best, but that doesn't mean I have to share their beliefs. 

    I used to be very devout as a child up to my early teens where I started having doubts. I know who Jesus is and I've been to Sunday schools and youth meetings and bible studies but my sense of logic determined that I can't believe in that.

    "This world needs the wisdom to cope in its stuggles and I'm sorry but I don't think athiesism can do that."

    In essence you want a peaceful utopia? Unfortunately, struggles exist even within our own community and we can't fix that, before you try to fix the people of the world, fix your own first. I remember in (Matt 7:3) Jesus said "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

    I don't see Atheism as a means of "fixing" this world as we can only put band-aids on it but religion won't help either as it promotes segregation and superiority. 

    Take Egypt for example; right now you wouldn't be able to tell a Muslim Egyptian from a Christian Copt by looks alone so why is there so much hate between them? Imagine if Egypt was secular or if everyone was irreligious, you wouldn't have the divisions that come with "Christian or Muslim", you'd just have "Egyptian".

  • Thanks for all your comments.


    I did not go to any other church and the last time I've been to Egypt was when I was a child. I know how tough Copts have it there and I wish them nothing but the best, but that doesn't mean I have to share their beliefs. 

    I used to be very devout as a child up to my early teens where I started having doubts. I know who Jesus is and I've been to Sunday schools and youth meetings and bible studies but my sense of logic determined that I can't believe in that.

    "This world needs the wisdom to cope in its stuggles and I'm sorry but I don't think athiesism can do that."

    In essence you want a peaceful utopia? Unfortunately, struggles exist even within our own community and we can't fix that, before you try to fix the people of the world, fix your own first. I remember in (Matt 7:3) Jesus said "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

    I don't see Atheism as a means of "fixing" this world as we can only put band-aids on it but religion won't help either as it promotes segregation and superiority. 

    Take Egypt for example; right now you wouldn't be able to tell a Muslim Egyptian from a Christian Copt by looks alone so why is there so much hate between them? Imagine if Egypt was secular or if everyone was irreligious, you wouldn't have the divisions that come with "Christian or Muslim", you'd just have "Egyptian".

    If you see the Coptics youths activist organization you see that Copts want a secular Egypt but the muslim msjority want an Islamic Egypt(see muslim brotherhood).And i know countrys as Lebanon(54% muslims,40% christians,6% Druz) or Iran(who have got Christiabs minorites of Armenians abd Assyrians) who live in Piece.The problem is in some countrys of muddle east.The reason is islamic fanatism.I remember Armenian churches(of Armenian communuty in Lebanon) help muslims immigrants.
  • It is good you went to church and that you do understand about certain meanings and teachings.
    Then you would know that we have a God Whom said He created us and basically after death; the world or ourselves, to go back to Him. I'm trying to make it logical.
    So since He says humanity is His children, wouldn't He want them to return to Him? Since He is spirit.
    And yes you are right there is alot of conflict that is and can be hard to fix but you would also know we are supposed to deal with troubles and tribulations in a different way. A sacrfical way that transforms us from weakness with the aim of perfecting ourselves. It is not that we expect perfection here and have utopia but be conformed in preparation for the heaven. Because that's where God wants us to be; with Him.
    The tribulations build us.
    Romans 5: 3-5 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulations produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

    The Holy Spirit, coming into our hearts. How does this effect our will? Our freewill.
    Well our choice to accept the tribulations creates hope as what it says in the verses. Sin goes against this hope because there are people whom do not repent and make wrong choices and hide behind God saying that the results are God's will. They have fear in tribulations which is natural but they do it without the striving simply because they dont want to change and there is no transformation.
    Do you know what the most stressful thing in life is? It's change. So instead of repentin to reconcile when arguments occur, people would rather say I'm right and say it's God's will when probably they could have given a message forgiveNess in others choices. That may of being loving and God's will.

    My situation is I'm your neighbour fRom over the ditch (sorry for those around the world who won't understand that), in New Zealand. I live in Christchurch and when I was young it was a very peaceful place. No wars with neighbours and we called it God zone and our national anthem is one of the very few countries who it is about God and us.
    God of nations at thy feet, in the bonds of love we meet.
    I was brought up with this and when I look at the problems of this world I see distance and being adopted I can understand what seperation means and what rejection means.
    We have the choice to reject God, but it can be like rejecting an understanding and wisdom of love and that it comes from God's goodness. When Jesus did miracles, an athiest would deny them, but if they look at Jesus doing good and suffering for doing good, it is more logical. Because God's will is to do good and not miracles, even though I know they happen.
    History; science and religion were together with science advanced so much and having its impact on civilization, but for Christianity; is God supposed to change when it's about following? The conflicts are because there is no repentance so no reconciliation. Schism is a change of path. An athiest may say the church is an institution we which people are brainwashed, but that is sacasism coming out of their own sense of facts. Because we are seeking something unseen it goes against what is seen and that comes to their veiw of society. Did you know that our parents are our first veiw of society? If we have conflict with them and go out into society, that we fall pray to the weakness of the social forms we choose to pick. Even if it is science because it can't keep up with the needs of society as a whole. So even though science can be quite advanced it becomes exclusive when compared to God's goodness and the way He heals the spirit. Reconciliation is peace and there is no peace unless we reconcile and there is no reconciliation unless we repent. Are we too proud to forgive? That's the way of power struggles born out of argument that instead of seeking God's will we use our own over what is right or wrong. God's will is righteous so is justified. Is there any logic in it? Only that it is life and not static. Forever changing inside us when we listen to His word. It is hard because change is stressful and it would be more comfortable to rely on science when things go wrong. History is past and if we look at the negative things only, we become static and full of regret and pity, but because we receive hope in and from God we are positive and a positive nature goes forward and one in which we are been asked to follow.

    Sorry my message is a bit longer than I intended. All the best CopticApostate.

  • edited June 30
    That is very respectful of you.
  • Thank you Mike. Some of it because I was upset about something else.

    But the way we deal with problems is to turn the other cheek. That is receive something wrong with forgiveness. A sinner has sinful thoughts, like jealous person has jealous thoughts and that the conflicts are the fruit of the sin. If we listen to each other with forgiveNess no matter the pain of doing so, then we can expose the sin and know it is seperation and not love or helping.
    Studyandlearn is very at recieving with forgiveness and that how he learns.
  • My dear wise brother Joshuaa I liked your post but I was referring to CopticApostate
  • Hi @CopticApostate,

    I'm going to say to the same thing I said to an ex-Protestant who became Orthodox who kept fixating on how evil Protestants are. Seeing your Reddit blog posts, it seems to me your organization is nothing more than an angry lash-out against the Coptic Church. If you base your own personal beliefs on continually foaming at the mouth against us, it is you who has the problem, not us.

    As for your apology, that is much appreciated. Nevertheless, what's the purpose of posting your Reddit site here in the middle of your apology? If you feel there is a different way of expressing your differences against us, then I would like to see it reflected in that site you gave us. Otherwise, I feel I am reading "I'm sorry for the way I introduced myself: here's a website where I'll continue encouraging the same behavior I'm sorry about."

    God bless you brother and strengthen you in your life.

    Mina
  • @minasoliman

    Hi back, think of this post and our subreddit whatever you like. Fact of the matter is, if it wasn't for that group and the people there, this post here would have never been made and I wouldn't look back on it. I'm not above mistakes, and unlike some people I know, if I reflect and found I've done things wrong, I'd admit it and try to fix it.

    I will say however, that while I am sorry for the way I brought up my post, I am not and never will be sorry for speaking it out or forming that subreddit or any post in that subreddit.

    I put it here because it's relevant to this post and to say that it's alright for people of differing opinions to post there, as I won't close discussions/debates because I feel they're "ridiculous" or trolling around. It's a site for venting as well as discussions so you will obviously see posts you may not personally like or feel they are made out of anger, but we will not censor opinions.
  • I hope whoever is there will get past venting some day and have some substantive discussions.
  • edited July 4
    @Joshuaa

    Howdy, neighbour.

    I do not deny any good anyone does - church included - but I will not take any negatives lightly as well. Sorry, but I saw your post as a long way to say "we can be inclusive of people if they adopt the same perspective as us when it comes to religion" which is the very definition of segregation I always see in religious communities.

    In my case, I will reject that which science rejects or which too far detached from logic that even science can't prove existed, simple as that but I didn't write this post to get into debates here as I'm pretty sure I will be censored. I'll try to respond to any private messages here and I'll be over at Reddit.
  • I've sent a pm
  • We're on a narrow path and I guess that would be inclusive of those whom are on it and I guess it would seem like a segregation to those whom are not on the narrow path.
  • edited August 12
    CopticApostate, 

    Here's a brief history of our Church: 

    Christianity struggled to survive during the first few centuries. Around the time of Emperor Decius, in 245 AD, serious efforts were being made to completely wipe out the Christians and Christianity off the face of the Earth. Massive persecutions, all of which cumulated into Emperor Galerius, Maximianus and Diocletian's 'Great Persecution' which nearly saw the destruction of the Christian people. 

    Christians were known, at that time, for their love of everyone, taking care of the poor, the sick and the needy, and preaching equality in a very divisive world of slaves, plebs and patricians. This is what we would call, 'Love', which God taught to us by giving us his Son. 

    So what happened? Well, during the Great Persecution there were 4 emperors ruling the Roman Empire. I already mentioned 3: Emperors Maximian & Diocletian Augusti, and Emperor Galerius Caesar. What about the 4th? This was Emperor Constantius Caesar, father of Flavius Valerius Constantinus. The other rulers were taking an active part in the destruction and complete abolition of the Cult of Jesus Christ, but this one was different. 

    Emperor Constantius was a righteous, pagan, man. He was compassionate to his subjects, and rightly so to the Christians. There was little persecution in the provinces of his administration. He married a woman we know today as 'Helena', who was a Christian, and fathered Flavius Valerius Constantinus, who would be Emperor Constantine the Great. 

    Flavius Valerius Constantinus rose up through the ranks, and became Emperor Diocletian's student, learning everything from him. Emperor Diocletian reigned over the Provinces of the Orient, which included the province of Egypt, and that is where him, and Constantine, spent a lot of his time. Constantine saw the devastation that the persecution brought. Tens of thousands of Romans were being slaughtered systematically, just because they wouldn't renounce their faith. 

    After Emperor Diocletian Abdicated, Constantine became Caesar of the Western provinces of the Roman Empire. He immediately signed the Edict of Milan, which officially ended the Great Persecution. But as fast as he signed it, a usurper and his kid rose up to challenge him, and his name was Licinius. Emperor Constantine fought civil wars to defend his actions, and to defend the Christians. His mother, after all, was a devout Christian. He won the civil war, and he became the sole ruler of the Roman Empire: Caesar Constantinus Augustus, Emperor of the Romans! 

    He carried on with Diocletian's work of reforming the Empire and bringing it back to the days of glory seen under Emperor Trajan through to Emperor Marcus Aurelius. He completely ended the persecutions of Christians. This is when monasticism really started to come about. At this point in time, there was no one out there to put pressure on the Christians and test their faith. So how could they test their faith? The monastic life was a great answer to this. So we get monks like, St. Anthony, who left for the desert when he saw that the persecutions were coming to an end. He really did try to get himself killed for Christ (after all, didn't Christ suffer enough for him?), but it wouldn't happen. The authorities were beginning to see where the wind was blowing, with Constantine gaining momentum, so they followed through with their toleration. 

    Emperor Constantine led great campaigns, retaking the lost provinces of Dacia, expanding the borders of the provinces of the Orient and launching a massive war with the Persian Empire in defense of the Christians living there. Before this, him and his mother, St. Helena, launched massive building projects across the entire empire, building new cathedrals, basilicas, churches, shrines and places of worship. This is also when hospitals, orphanages, and houses for the poor began being built on a large scale. These didn't exist before, and Doctors only tended to those who could afford it, or to the soldiers. Now, hospitals began to become widespread, run by Christians for free, and giving those who need it care and healing. 

    This is also the time of St. Helena's pilgrimage to the holy land, where Jerusalem was built up in a great city, housing many great churches. This is also the time when the True Cross was found. In the year 325, the first council was held, the Council of Nicaea, which sought out to eliminate a heresy that sprung up in Egypt from a guy named Arius. 

    To commemorate the massive shift in the empire, Emperor Constantine commissioned the building of a new Capital City: Constantinople, or New Rome. This is where Constantine's genius really shows, as the location of the capital would be in the most secure and strategic location in the entire empire. Close to the borders with Rome's greatest enemies, and almost fully impenetrable, due to its location and land walls, it would serve the empire for 1100 years after it was built. 

    Before his death, he finally converted to Christianity. He launched his war with the Persian Empire, and began preparations for a full out invasion, annexation and integration of the Persian provinces into the Roman Empire. He wasn't able to carry through with these plans as he died shortly afterwards, before the start of his campaigns, leaving his son, Constantius II to take over responsibility of the war, which he struggled with. 

    This is a lot to type... I thought this would be brief. You can see how rich the history of the church is. This is only 1 angle of it, we're talking about who ruled Rome during the time when Christianity took up a new role in society. This is a very sparse, and very narrow view. What I wrote is not even close to what really happened, as there is just so much detail missing! You really gotta get into it, to really appreciate the history. 

    The point of this is its survival, which was a miracle unto itself. If you really get into the nitty gritty of what the church was like in its early days, you will begin to understand why the church survived, and what that actually means. I encourage you to do so. 
  • thanks for that, khas, great work.

    good to 'see' you again

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