Will Copts ever be granted divorce

jbetpc

I am wondering with Catholics having the ability to divorce, if anyone here thinks Pope Tawadros will ever make it possible in order to divorce but not lose your entire family as a result?
Taking into consideration the length of marriage, the despair and types of fighting that go on, and frankly, humanism. I understand it says it in both old and new testament but this is a new era, a new time, a sad time, but a time nonetheless, and I dont see why the coptic culture condemns and judges when that is God's job. Someone, please guide me in better understanding.

mikeforjesus

An adulterous generation seeks a divorce.  The time is coming when they will not give heed to sound doctrine but because they have itching ears will heap up for themselves teachers. You want men to replace God as teacher. That is disgusting. Also the catholic church does not permit divorce.

Studyandlearn

if someone looses love for eachother let them pray to be full of love again
God who is love and who loves us can always give us more love
Let the wife pray to love her husband with the true love from God as the Church loves Christ and let the husband pray to love his wife with the true love from God as Christ loves the Church
Is there no understanding? Pray for understanding
Is there no respect? Pray for respect
Is there no romantic feelings? Pray

And let anyone who are lost in their selfishness desipte being married - let them hear the scriptures and the wise saints sayings and pray with them

When we marry we are supposed to be united in everything we are bond together as one flesh we become a living symbol of Christ and the Church and the family becomes a small church.

Divorce by any wrong reason is an harmful thing its like ripping out your heart just because you dont like it so much anymore

I know the effects of divorce quite well, i live in a mainly atheistic society where almost everyone gets a divorce or many divorces. The married couples gets bored by eachother and quarrel over small meaningless things because they dont have a space for God in their life. And its the same with many of the christians here they get married and they try to be married without having God as Lord in their marriage and in their whole life, they try to love eachother without praying for the loving eyes to see the true beauty and brillance and wonder of their spouse, they attempt to lean on their own strenght and understanding instead of God. They are caught in a sick time and a sick society. We have to help them by letting them know how to truly love. By giving the good example by our lives

I hope the Coptic Church will never be in this harmful situation where anyone can get a divorce just because they "dont have the feelings any more" God who gave us everything is the one who gives us ability to feel and ability to love, just ask Him and believe in his power. He will give a loving heart full of love for everyone to anyone who wants one and asks Him.

If someone is not able to love their husband or wife how are they supposed to be christian in anything? How are they supposed to love anyone in a selfless way? How are they supposed to have sacrificial love for anyone? Love is something you always work on, pray and work on. You notice any selfish thought or action? Pray for forgiveness and help and work on it. Love by feelings, by actions, by sacrifice by your mind and thoughts and always seek to become more loving. Love is not to accept everyone unchanged its about accepting their human nature and help them by prayer and actions and words to always have a more godly nature, and even if someone is married to someone who is like a stone and wont change in anyway, let them not give up, let them be patient and God can change the hardest heart. We are supposed to be like our Lord not like the world which is lost. If you follow the thinking of these times it will lead you to your grave.

God is our Saviour, our Creator, our Guide our Lord and he is to be glorfied by the marriage his love and power is supposed to be shining out of the marriage! The husband is supposed to be lifted up by his wife and the wife by her husband, they are supposed to love eachother to the point of death and they are supposed to always care more for the other one.

Marriage is not only about being inlove and liking eachother its about always seeking to bring the other one closer to God and to become their full potential.

Marriage is Sacred and Beautiful and Holy.

CopticApostate

My sister is getting a divorce (no adultery involved, just a petty argument that grew into something big which made the boy and his family abusive). She was in another country when married and came back home after the separation. She spoke to Pope Tawadros about this and he said she should initiate the divorce in the country of marriage.

I'm assuming there will be a shift soon. I for one will never get married in the Coptic church.

jbetpc

mikeforjesus, please look into it. Catholics are in fact allowed to divorce, remarry, and with annulment, allowed to take communion. Pope Francis made this possible a few months ago. There is still some confusion as he did not make certain requietments clear, but it is allowed.
I do not mean a petty fight causing a divorce. People fight and I absolutely agree that people should not divorce because the love fades a little or even a lot. When a marriage gets to a point, mind you a marriage that the priest himself didnt feel they should have married to begin with, it is to the point where both husband and wife wish they never married to begin with; where wife tells husband to kill himself and a plethora of other hateful sad things and both feel they are stuck to be miserable and married for the rest of their lives. This is with counsling of their priest, family help, etc and it is consistently getting worse. They separated for a few months and tried again but it is getting worse and worse as the time goes by. In this case, the praying for love, for understanding, for each other, for better, for God, for more and it is continuing to be more and more toxic, and now both sides of the families are fighting. Both families have told them if they divorce, they are no longer part of the family. They lose everyone, the church, and their culture.

mikeforjesus

I looked into it now. It is still not considered right to divorce but they now allow those who do get remarried to have communion in the church if they are repentant

mikeforjesus

I want to say things better I don't why I can't say things better the first time. I wish I could trust God not to hold the wrong against me lest I err more or sound worse but who said God doesn't want me to correct it if I think it is worse not to correct it
It is a good step for those who remarried who were innocent and also those who sinned who remarried but I don't know what conditions should be made for them to repent if they should leave their current spouse especially if they have no new children or their children maybe do not need them together but they should be available for their children but maybe should practice abstinence as a measure of repentance
But I think the ideal for no divorce is good atleast in some cases

mikeforjesus

Apologies that I only read a few sentences of your last reply jbetoc. Of course continued abuse is grounds for divorce when one knows jesus teaching and they have been sufficiently warned because a person who does not listen to the church about how to behave jesus said let him be to you a heathen and in fact he is like an unbeliever who left you. I am yet to decide what should be done if a spouse is physically violent twice or sometimes once but that seems to be a grounds for divorce now in the church supposing a persons life may feel threatened. Unfortunately it seems we can not know if they really intended harm so I am undecided. Maybe one can tell if a person is really a threat and he is controlling and disrespectful towards his wife or loves her and did not actually mean to harm her
I sympathise for the wife though who is threatened and maybe it should be a possibility for divorce and if they are a threat we are responsible not to act

It can happen though for a spouse to be angry or upset but not use physical violence and then regret it. The bible says not to let the sun go down on your anger. Therefore I think it can be forgiven. Also if the person means a lot to you if he apologises 2 days later him really wanting to apologise earlier but thinking it is not sincere and to take the issues seriously you should forgive. The bible even supports separation

It doesn't matter what the church now says but what the apostles have said. If they said a wife has no authority over her body but the husband does and she doesn't listen to the apostles she is not listening to the church and is a heathen
A heathen thinks he knows better than God.
Sex can prevent prostate cancer in old men and also if the complaint of a woman is that the man is not close to him well men are designed to be closer through sex and it helps them be closer. You chose the marriage so both better do what is commanded even if they don't want to. But I think it may be good if the husband is still not affectionate enough to stop having sex though it is not required but that should bother both and they should have sex and stop being hard on others who you don't know their heart. To not want Sex at all is to not love the other at all and that is wrong

mikeforjesus

The prostate cancer comment is stupid because what about those who are monks. They can get cancer if God is pleased with them and wants to take them to heaven
God will not let harm happen to the married person unless there is another way to remove the things that cause cancer. I just thought God made it like that for married couples who are not as spiritual but now I don't think that is the case. I thought because sex is part of doing the commandments of God when married that to not do it would have problems but rather than hurt the innocent one it could hurt the guilty but innocent ones also get cancer for other reasons
Sometimes I may deserve to be censored for talking too much but sometimes you think I should but I should not. However as you do not know I accept to be warned and even have my posts deleted but I would like a backup of my posts for my wasted time

Studyandlearn

Hi Mike,
Dont worry about your posts, they are a bit unorganised and it is as if you are thinking while writing. You are sharing your thoughts and concerns with us and thats beautiful.

As for the content of your posts you raise some good questions and points. Ive spent a lot of time thinking about this too since almost everyone i know - from scandinavia and western culture - are divorced or have parents who are divorced.

My father and mother are divorced and my mother is remarried. Why? Because they didnt put God at the center of their marriage and they didnt seek to obey his will together. Again why? Probably because they both got a lacking upbringing that wasnt centered on God. Why? It seems to have been like that for generations. Another factor is that they grew up in the hippie era and in atheist culture, in books and on the radio and by people they got a lot of bad advice. Yet another factor is that my father is diagnosed with bi-polarity and my mother with adhd, so they didnt go through problems and misunderstandings in a calm and reasonable way, instead it was mostly anger - frustration - blame - fear - and also suppressed emotions. People knew they had problems, but not how much and they didnt get the help they needed. My father was sometimes violent and could fall into rage attacks over small silly issues such as the use of an electric oven instead of making a fire in the fireplace. I dont think he commited adultery, but i think he did in his heart because he has always been drawn to many women. As for my mom she didnt understand how to deal with the situation and she did many things wrong too and suffered a lot, a long time - months- she couldnt even smile because she was so tense and it was like her facial muskles were frozen. So they got divorce and we kids were actually relieved, we didnt see any solution, at the time we didnt believe in God and his power. And now my mother is married again to a christian man and they have some trouble and problems - that one marriage doesnt work usually means that one or both who are involved simply are not competent for marriage, marriage is a huge responsiblity and demands ability to change of both or at least one of them. Yet this marriage that she has now has actually brought many people to Christ because they have opened up their home and there are many volunteers coming to their farm who are learning so much and they are also learning a lot from them. They have also created a place for activites for christians and they are starting to become more understanding and respectfull towards each other. If they would break this new marriage it seems to me it would have many negative consequences for not only them but the people around them and for what they created together that many benefit from. On the other hand i can see many good consequences if they would depart from eachother, but not at all to the same extent. So i really dont know what is right in their particular case, but it needs a lot of prayer

mikeforjesus

Thankyou for your kind reply and sharing :)

I plan to comment on your post if I feel your post needs me to think about it more and reply to enlighten me about things because I may agree or disagree but I woke up with a headache and can only think abit. I have been thinking a lot in my dreams about the content of my dreams
which is why I woke up with a headache

Daniel_Kyrillos

As far as I have heard, adultery is currently the only valid reason to request a divorce in the Coptic church... am I correct? I'm sorry for asking such a simple and silly question.

mabsoota

sorry to hear about yr hard time, studyand learn. may God give u peace. i suppose u are still young, do u live with yr mum? it is hard to grow up with an unstable family, but it feels better as u get older and come closer to God.
as for the church, we allow divorce for adultery, desertion and change of religion.
usually only 1 person is allowed to remarry in the church. if you are both committing adultery, you can't usually remarry. but u can both repent and either stay together or live as single people.
i have been married more than 20 years. when u work together through the hard times and pray together, it is very beautiful and worthwhile :)

jbetpc

adultery is currently the only way to divorce and without communion in the bear future. He is not abusive. She hates him for not becoming the person she expected him to be. It is such a sad state of being and his parents have told him divorce is not an option or he loses his family, the church, and his faith.

jbetpc

so, he says, " this is my life. this is all its ever going to be. I will be miserable, forever."

mikeforjesus

Does she hate him or disappointed. Disappointment can show as hate but a hateful person hates because they are an evil person. Anyway divorce is not an option in this case he may have to take some responsibility but I'd like to see someone else's solution for this I know temporary separation is okay but it is not best in some cases you would need professional guidance I would like to see what they say
Criticism may not always be abuse but even some verbal abuse if it is not continual with new things is not grounds for divorce if the person genuinely is upset of your behaviour and not playing games with you as an abuser does

Separation is good for the constant criticiser who is not a abuser

Proverbs 21:9
Better to dwell in a corner of a housetop,
Than in a house shared with a contentious woman.

You can not know if one hates therefore you should try to win their love. Even if they hate they may love later but you should seperate from a hateful person. It is not grounds for divorce. They have to cheat. But you can seperate if they are too difficult
to live with

mabsoota

sounds like they need a little time apart to heal.

time apart does not equal divorce.

may God give you and them wisdom

Joshuaa

Yes a little quiet time away from the conflict to think things through and hopefully come back humbly not with pride but be reconciled and honest with their responibilites.

mikeforjesus

I wanted to say there has to be real abuse because Jesus said forgive seventy times seven

CopticApostate

@mikeforjesus

Do you really think the family of the abused would just stay quiet? If it was your brother or sister getting abused, would you still tell them to "forgive 70 x 7"?

This is enabling behaviour.

mikeforjesus

I said if it is not abuse

CopticApostate

You said it has to be "real abuse". What constitutes that and to what extent does it have to be tolerated in your view?

mikeforjesus

Behaviour that is scary where physical violence is involved especially or if your safety feels threatened. It does not need to be tolerated even once. However if someone divorces just from a slap to the arms commited unpremeditated I'm not sure how many marriages will survive. It might not be scary or threatening enough.

CopticApostate

So let me rearrange your thoughts so far, and do correct me if I'm mistaken:

1. You said "real abuse" would have to be present in order to legitimise a divorce and that people should forgive 490 times.

2. When asked what you believe constitutes real abuse you said "Behaviour that is scary where physical violence is involved especially or if your safety feels threatened."

3. You said "a slap to the arms commited unpremeditated" is not a reason for divorce, but it is scary and whether planned or not, physical violence is involved, therefore it belongs to the category of real abuse.

See where I'm going with this. I'm not attacking you personally but I want to expose the double standard Copts have towards marriage.

Yes, every case may be different, some couples would have been better off not getting to know each other in the first place, some may have had good intentions in the beginning but the marriage broke down, some hate each other's guts but decide to stick it out for the kids.

In any case, the marriage no longer provides a benefit and can provide more harm than good, even children would be better off with divorced parents if they live in such a household.

The church living up to its traditions and teachings is never an excuse for anyone to remain in any form of abusive or toxic marriage. I don't care how many marriages survive, I'd rather quality than quantity.

minatasgeel

So how about we clarify some things...we keep talking about divorce, but in essence that is not the problem. The Church DOES NOT grant divorces. The Church only unites. The mystery is in the act of the unification and not in 'undoing' it. That being said, what the Church does in any of the acceptable cases of a failed marriage, is either declare an annulment, or an absolution to get remarried. Without getting into the reasons of either results, those are not considered divorces, but the Church's lawful way in dealing with the weakness of men and their sin of allowing themselves to get married to the wrong partner. 

Now, @CopticApostate: 

• The church living up to its traditions and teachings is never an excuse for anyone to remain in any form of abusive or toxic marriage.
  

The Church living up to its traditions and teachings is the only thing that has kept our Christian faith till this day and for two thousand years. Only, and this is clear in our society, when family values that are based on marriage has deteriorated (even in other religions), that when the abolishment of mankind began. While we know that your intention here is to poke holes in our Christian faith, lets just consider how much atheism accomplished, while it's nothing new, and while you being a weak opponent to argue for atheism since you're not here to fight for your love to atheism, but you're simply here to hate Christianity(those two things don't have to be mutually inclusive), yet it was the Christianity that lived on that has brought us the greatest accomplishments and advancements to our human race...but of course you'll begin to mention the minority that haven't.

• I don't care how many marriages survive, I'd rather quality than quantity

I truly don't think anyone cares about your statement either. Nothing you can say will change much because, everything that anyone might of thought of today, has probably taken place some time in the last 2000 years. Men didn't only begin beating their wives in the last 50 years, or even Copts didn't just start fighting for 'more divorces' from the Church. All of this and much worst things had taken place and the Church dealt with them accordingly, and those who haven't accepted the Church's ruling have simply faded away like many heretics. 

There is a reason many Christians don't argue with others about their Christian faith...not that they are afraid to lose, but simply because their belief in God is greater than their feeling of a need to fight for Him. That will always be the case for true Christians, and the Orthodox Church.

CopticApostate

The church does not grant divorces but it sure as hell influences them and judges their (civil) divorcees, not on merit or the situation they were but based solely on the view that they opposed Christ. That makes all the difference.

"The Church living up to its traditions and teachings is the only thing that has kept our Christian faith till this day and for two thousand years."

Never denied that, your indoctrination is strong and I get that. Just said they were no excuse to live a toxic lifestyle that can be managed in better ways. Family values were essential back then but they took the backseat nowadays on the society as a whole which now affect everyone regardless of religion and believe or not, Copts as well will be affected regardless of the church's teachings. As such, what applied to people 2000 years ago (surprisingly) won't apply to people of modern times.

"lets just consider how much atheism accomplished,"

Yes, I'm an Atheist. No, it's not a means to an end it's just a reaction to the state of affairs. I look at people's accomplishments not on the basis of their religion or lack thereof, but solely on their intelligence and merit, which are separate from their beliefs.

"yet it was the Christianity that lived on that has brought us the greatest accomplishments and advancements to our human race...but of course you'll begin to mention the minority that haven't."

Um, how does that at all relate to my statement that people shouldn't be in abusive marriages because of the church's teachings? Yes, there were great advancements to our society by many scientists of many faiths and many of no faith, but again, their beliefs or lack of do not take credit, it's their intelligence and merit.

"I truly don't think anyone cares about your statement either. Nothing you can say will change much"

Coincidentally, I don't care about your lack of care either. Everyone is entitled to their opinion until they enforce it on others. 

I don't care about changing the church's teachings and scriptures, that would imply that I am still a Christian, which probably caused the downfall of all the idiots that were looking to do that in the past. I'm writing so that people can take matters into their own hands when they can't get the help they need in church, so they can put themselves and their quality of life they are entitled to above an ideology they believe in and not feel guilt or shame for it. I'd be glad if I got one person reading this to think outside the box for once.

"Men didn't only begin beating their wives in the last 50 years, or even Copts didn't just start fighting for 'more divorces' from the Church."

Again, I'm not an activist, not fighting for change, that would imply still being a Christian. I'm merely stating how it looks subjectively and why I disagree with some statements. Everyone is free to make their own judgements however they like afterwards.

"we know that your intention here is to poke holes in our Christian faith."

Don't have to. The holes are already there and everyone sees them from time to time, many choose to ignore or rationalise while some see them and act out. Either way, not my concern. If it was and that was my intention, I'd be spamming this forum daily like our banned troll on both sides, but I just pass my view where I feel it's warranted.

"There is a reason many Christians don't argue with others about their Christian faith...not that they are afraid to lose, but simply because their belief in God is greater than their feeling of a need to fight for Him."

Well, that obviously explains why Orthodox, Catholics and Protestants decided to settle their differences and move on just praising God, eh? /s

mikeforjesus

There is no general rule for what validates divorce apart from sexual immorality. Of course someone leaving you is already a divorce and so immorality does not need to happen. Real abuse is a reason but not all cases are abuse but 80 percent maybe are. The apostles were given authority and power to loose and bind such as Paul was as jesus said what sins you forgive are forgiven and what sins you retain are retained. God gave them ability to interpret the scriptures for each case. Unfortunately mistakes do happen and one person can lie to the priest. Humans will always make mistakes they are not God. But they may still be responsible
In that case God will compensate for the wronged person I am told by my dad.
But how will they stay in the church ? I would think to convert to Eastern Orthodox and solve my problem through that. Then my ex wife could think she did good to put me in another community. But she has to repent of that. I do agree with remarriage on repentance for sinners but if I didn't my conversion would not be sincere and I don't agree with other doctrines such as all their beliefs about prayer for the dead. Therefore they are forcing me to be without sacraments but I may just have it in the Eastern Orthodox though I wouldn't consider myself a real member strictly but there may be limits to me marrying or forbidden. I see no way to be in the church unless I can sin in their eyes by remarrying another copt in a Protestant church and hope them to give us absolution and let us back in the church. My intention is for the sacraments therefore if I am put out unlawfully they are to blame and I hope God will understand. But I have to be sure I was put out unlawfully.

mikeforjesus

There are more reasons for divorce now like someone separating from you for 3 years the church applied maybe not always but I cant think of a reason not to apply it lest they people leave Christianity without fully their choice. Jesus gave this authority to interpret scripture for every case.
Widowhood is praised but it is not required and sometimes maybe foolish.
When Jesus said we are one flesh it is not only for Christians because of the sacrament God joins all because a person has not sufficiently yet rejected God. He can sufficiently reject God without fully for how do you know whether you will save your husband Paul says and in the mean time destroy your own ?but if one becomes a Christian and the other can't live with them it means they were never in God or suitable for each other
People need to convert but I refer them to others who will pastor them and help their situation whether they must do so now or later.

Remnkemi

CopticApostate,

"Coincidentally, I don't care about your lack of care either. Everyone is entitled to their opinion until they enforce it on others. 

I don't care about changing the church's teachings and scriptures, that would imply that I am still a Christian, which probably caused the downfall of all the idiots that were looking to do that in the past. I'm writing so that people can take matters into their own hands when they can't get the help they need in church, so they can put themselves and their quality of life they are entitled to above an ideology they believe in and not feel guilt or shame for it. I'd be glad if I got one person reading this to think outside the box for once."

So now you are actively prostelyzing Copts, encouraging them to abandon the Church and the Church's position on divorce because you believe the Church doesn't give them the help they need based on what you admitted was "your opinion".

I know I made it pretty clear that we are not going to tolerate anyone who speaks negatively against the Coptic Church. 

It's obvious from the original post that the question was asking if the Coptic Church will ever allow divorce and how to get the OP to understand why the Coptic Church refuses divorce. Do I have to explain to you in more detail how you are not answering the question but instead you are blowing a red herring?

I'm not going to close this thread because you're only going to start other threads attacking me personally for closing threads. But make no mistake, you are actively ignoring everything the admins have told. You are actively driving a wedge between Copts and the Coptic Church. And you are actively showing your ignorance on these topics. 

CopticApostate

Okay, 

First, I did respond to the original question of the topic a few weeks ago if you scroll up a bit. My recent comments were directed at @mikeforjesus's statements.

Secondly, how is telling someone to think for themselves any form of proselytism? They might come a different conclusion than I did and go about it in different ways, I'm not holding a Great A sign and telling people to follow my new religion

Thirdly, disagreeing with the church is not the same as abandoning it. If that's how you perceive it then so be it. I left the church, but other people can still be a part of it while projecting their disagreements, unless the church kicks them out.

Fourthly, I bring up my views on controversial topics here only when someone else does first. I started a similar topic once out of my own volition and I apologised for that before. You know, I appreciate that you didn't close this thread but instead of blowing me of as a troublemaker because of my negative stances, you'd do (and look) a lot better to actually respond to my statements instead displaying your authority as an admin. At least Mina above tried and I admire him for that.

Last point, if anything I say here is enough to make someone completely lose faith then what's happening is either a) my points are strong/irrefutable or b) that person's faith must be very week to begin with and if I'm showing ignorance then why don't you be a pal and actually present your thoughts on where I was ignorant, lest anyone think that anyone who disagrees with you is "ignorant".

Remnkemi

All of your comments above basically say "The Coptic Church is wrong and I would never do what the Coptic Church says or believes." I can go through each and everyone of your comments to show you how this is essentially what your posts say. You're not going to agree, much less see the self-seeking pride and subliminal prostelytism. 

Second, you are not simply telling someone to think for themselves. You are essentially saying "think for yourself because you may be indoctrinated by the Coptic Church." That is proselytism. Your consistent attack on the Coptic Church is the Great A sign that is subliminally telling people to follow your religion (or at least follow your opinion as if it was logical and rational).

Third, disagreeing with the Church is the same as disagreeing with God. Your continuous lack of true Christian knowledge and your desire to blur the reality of God's truth in the mantra of "Free thinking" is an abundantly evident and classical sign of atheism. Everybody is entitled to observe the world any way they want to and come to their own conclusion. They do not have the right to conclude that everyone's opinion is equally valid to one another or more valid to God's revelation. If this constitutes some sort of oppressive thinking or indoctrination, the onus is on you to show how. Feelings and negative events in your life is not even a rational argument. You have offered nothing more to substantiate your disagreement. 

Let's put it this way. If I were a serial murderer and thief and I broke into your house, would you sit there and say to me "I have a right to my opinion of stealing and murder and it is equally important to your rights. You can still be a murder and thief in my house while you project your disagreement"? No. You fight me or call the cops to kick me out. You don't say that my opinion is equal to the truth. This amounts to the logic of your argument. 

Fourth, I have responded to many of your statements line by line in the past. It has not stopped you from insulting the Coptic Church and driving a wedge between the Copts and the Coptic Church. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of folly. It would thus be foolish to respond to each of your statements and expect any different behavior on your part. It's also irrelevant who starts the topic. Regardless of who starts a topic, you continue to revert all your comments as an attack on the Coptic Church. That makes you a trouble maker. And I don't care how I look in front of men. I care how men look in front of God and how men look to God - which you consistently fail to recognize.

Last point. If someone loses faith, it is not an indictment on God and Christianity or your rhetorical abilities. It is an indictment on sin and how we are fallen. When someone loses faith, we pray for that person because every fallen man and woman needs it. We ask God to intervene (as Studyandlearn so eloquently stated in her June 9th post). And if you actually look above, no one actually disagrees with the Coptic Church's stand on divorce - except you. (They are just trying to process it). Everyone is just clarifying, as best they can, how and why the Coptic Church takes this view and why it is actually beneficial - except you. No one has responded to the original question by trying to get anyone to think outside the Coptic Church's "box" - except you. When everyone offers Coptic Christian advice on a Coptic forum advocating trust in God, which is true to the Coptic spiritual tradition - except you - that makes your comments ignorant. It has nothing to do with what the admins want or decide as proper. It is has to do with what God wants and what God decides is proper. You're the only one who chooses to ignore - which make it ignorance.